A4 Newbie Needs Help

[sailingchance]

So I've taken a major plunge. I bought an old Seafarer 34 with an Atomic 4 engine in it. I'm completely rebuilding the boat. COMPLETELY. I'm very proficient in everything except... the engine. I'm dedicated to keeping the A4 running, but I know as much about engines as Stephen Hawking knows about dancing.

I know my a4 runs. With the help of the yard, we got it running and they claim it looks/runs well. It has a V-Drive transmission. Monel tank. Fuel filter. Original starter. Raw water cooled. Exhaust elbow needs replacement but outside of that, I dont know much else.

I have the original manual, but I'm more of a "visual" learner. Are there any DVD's, online video tutorials that anyone is aware of. Anyone in the Space Coast, FL area interesting in free beer for tutoring?

Beyond knowing that it works - what should I be checking, learning about first? I think it's in good shape, but how do I really know? I'm a very hands on guy so I want to learn as this boat will eventually be my home.

Any help, advice, etc. would be very much appreciated.

Thanks! Look forward to really joining this community!!!

Jason

SV Sailing Chance

[hanleyclifford]

Welcome to the forum. For the A4 this is the place. The first thing is to get your personal copy of the Moyer Marine Repair and Overhaul Manual available on this site. It goes well beyond the original factory book although both are useful. There are many mechanics here and we do love to see pictures of the A4.

[marthur]

Actually, there are video tutorials on DVD or available for download through this website. Check out the links in the catalog at the MM homepage: http://www.moyermarine.com/.

By searching the threads here in the discussion community, you will also see many interesting and valuable pictures.

And of course, if you ask questions you will usually get plenty of answers.

Welcome to the club,

Mike

[marthur]

P.S. Someone should warn you to be careful about certain topics unless you have lots of time for reading : ) PCV and oil filtration come to mind.

[Marian Claire]

Welcome to the forum. Looking back over 8 yrs of owning an A-4 here are a few things I wish I had done/asked sooner. Hopefully you have decent access and if not you may want to make a few mods to improve access.
1. Work thru the oil change process, how to check oil level and what the level should be. Has an oil filter been added to your A-4?
2. When was the RW pump last serviced? Any history of flushing the cooling system?
3. Determine the type, early/late or a mix of your A-4. Pics will help.
4. Do a compression check. Inexpensive tool and worth owning one.
5. Pull some fuel from the bottom of the tank and check for crud/water. The fuel pickup tube probable does not get to the very bottom of the tank.
6. Ignition type. Points or Electronic ignition? Just pop off the distributor cap and look.
7. PO's may have done some weird things to the boat so just because it works may not mean it is done correctly.
In general just read the manual, research on this forum, check out the panorama view on the home page, use the on line catalog to learn/ID parts, post pics( sized correctly), ask questions, be familiar with your A-4 and enjoy the trip.
Dan S/V Marian Claire

[sastanley]

Dan, Excellent newbie checklist.

Jason..welcome! About 4 1/2 years ago, I was in the exact same boat as you (pun intended!) . Sailboats, sailing, rigs, sails, fiberglass...no problem. But, what the heck do I do with this big hunk of metal in the middle called the Atomic 4 engine??

I am still working on re-furbishing my old girl, but I am enjoying the ride, as I am sure you will as well.

[TomG]

Jason,

Welcome aboard!

Many of us share your story and I can say without question you've hit the mother lode as it pertains to all things A-4. There is a wealth of knowledge in this forum and Moderator Bill has "stickied" the most common and most thorough threads in each category. You can probably find the answer to most any question on the forum.

Like you, I found myself with this unknown little critter in my new/old boat a few years ago. I spent a couple of weeks going through the forum and bought a copy of MMI's Manual. I read that from cover to cover. Being more of a "visual" learner than intellectual one, I also ordered the MMI DVDs on cooling, ignition, and the tranny. These videos are very well done and Don's calm narrative really demystified this engine. If money's no object, I highly recommend them.

There are a few things that I concerned myself with when bringing my A-4 out of hibernation.

First of all, it's gasoline powered and gas has a much lower flash point than diesel making it readily flammable and not simply combustible. A good blower/ventilation system is very important to me. If non-ethanol fuel is not available on the Space Coast, you might greatly benefit from changing out all fuel lines to ethanol-rated line. And like Dan mentioned, I completely emptied and cleaned my fuel tank. Here's what I found:



If you have a one-way check valve at your tank, check it/clean it thoroughly.




The Zenith carburetors use on the A-4 are beautiful designs, but they are very, very finicky about fuel quality. Most folks who frequent this forum use both a larger fuel/water separator and then a secondary or "polishing" filter between the pump and the carb. Save yourself a lot of aggravation and do this.

Second, a by-product of internal combustion is Carbon Monoxide. A quality CO detector was one of the first things I added to my boat.

Third, like a doctor listens to your lungs with a stethoscope, a compression tester is a wonderfully useful tool in determining the health of your engine. Stuck valves are not uncommon in the A-4 (I remember reading the older A-4s had relatively weak valve springs) with humidity/water intrusion being the likely cause. I invested in a compression tester and although my A-4 is a rebuilt Moyer model from 2008, I have used the compression tester to rule out issues like stuck valves and blown head gaskets.

With a RWC engine, scale build-up and corrosion are concerns especially in salt water. Depending on the age/health/maintenance history, a conversion to FWC (though not cheap) might pay big dividends if you plan on keeping the A-4 or replacing with a new one. If it were my boat, I'd be very interested in the innards of the cooling passages. You might be able to get a sense by removing the thermostat or a block drain plug. Ideally, you could remove the side plate. DANGER, WILL ROBINSON!: I've read many posts about studs breaking/corroding on the side plate, the thermostat, and the manifold as well as the soft brass nipples and plugs breaking off. I would only start removing studs and brass plugs when I had a window of time to work on things if something didn't go according to plan!

What I was most concerned with on my initial few months with the new A-4 were: good compression, normal RPM, normal oil pressure, normal water temperature, normal volts from the alternator. If all these are within limits and you don't have any overt signs of trouble (leaking water, leaking fuel, grinding/whining, exhaust leaks), I'd say you were in good shape.

If the boat's on the hard, now is a great time to check the stuffing box and cutless bearing as well as the raw water intake.

Congratulations on your new purchase and let us know what you find. While I consider myself the ultimate A-4 newbie, there is an unbelievable amount of experience and knowledge on this forum and it is offered with an unequaled sense of camaraderie.

[edwardc]

Welcome Jason!

This is the place for all things A4. You'll find this to be a high-quality forum. The people here are knowledgable and more than willing to help. The "signal-to-noise" ratio on this forum is extremely high! We'll have you "dancing" in no time!

... I'm dedicated to keeping the A4 running...

An excellent decision. You won't regret it. The beauty of this tough old beast is that it's simple. Any shade-tree mechanic with a set of standard tools can work on it. And unlike many old time-honored engines, parts are still readily available, thanks in large part to the efforts of our host, Don Moyer and all the employees of Moyer Marine.

... It has a V-Drive transmission. Monel tank. Fuel filter. Original starter.

Your setup sounds very similar to mine. I'm one of the few here with a V-drive. It's a mixed blessing. Makes access to some things easier, some harder. But it does give you an extra 2:1 reduction which lets your A4 run at a higher RPM where it can generate higher HP.

... Raw water cooled. Exhaust elbow needs replacement but outside of that, I dont know much else. I have the original manual, but I'm more of a "visual" learner.

With that in mind, check out my photo album on my exhaust rebuild:

http://www.moyermarine.com/forums/album.php?albumid=73

It's a pretty easy project. Hardest part is getting the old parts off. Most people use black iron pipe from Home Depot for this project, but I elected to spend a little more and go with stainless. DO NOT use galvanized! The two important things, though, are to have enough riser, and install an anti siphon valve. Most OEM exhausts simply have an elbow with no riser.

We love pictures here. Post some of your setup so we can look it over.

Again welcome!

[tenders]

Your setup sounds very similar to mine. I'm one of the few here with a V-drive. It's a mixed blessing. Makes access to some things easier, some harder. But it does give you an extra 2:1 reduction which lets your A4 run at a higher RPM where it can generate higher HP.

I have a V-drive too and concur with edwardc's assessment. Overall I think the access the V-drive's setup gives to the rest of the engine (at least, in my installation) outweighs the 100% lack of access to the flywheel (which, in my installation, butts up against the fuel tank) and incredibly difficult access to the shaft seal and coupling. But access to the distributor, water pump, spark plugs, oil change, side plate, and some of the carb and fuel pump is darn near ideal.

HOWEVER, do not assume that every V-drive has 2:1 reduction! Mine is 1:1!

[sailingchance]

This is all really great info and EXACTLY what I was looking for. I didn't see the DVD's before, but will check those out. I've attached two pictures of the engine. I have others but this is what was on my phone.




V-drive

I have a V-drive too and concur with edwardc's assessment. Overall I think the access the V-drive's setup gives to the rest of the engine (at least, in my installation) outweighs the 100% lack of access to the flywheel (which, in my installation, butts up against the fuel tank) and incredibly difficult access to the shaft seal and coupling. But access to the distributor, water pump, spark plugs, oil change, side plate, and some of the carb and fuel pump is darn near ideal.

HOWEVER, do not assume that every V-drive has 2:1 reduction! Mine is 1:1!

How do I know if it's a 2:1 reduction or not?

[sailingchance]

With that in mind, check out my photo album on my exhaust rebuild:

http://www.moyermarine.com/forums/album.php?albumid=73

It's a pretty easy project. Hardest part is getting the old parts off. Most people use black iron pipe from Home Depot for this project, but I elected to spend a little more and go with stainless. DO NOT use galvanized! The two important things, though, are to have enough riser, and install an anti siphon valve. Most OEM exhausts simply have an elbow with no riser.

We love pictures here. Post some of your setup so we can look it over.

Again welcome!

Edward - Why do you recommend against galvanized? I've seen other posts recommending it, just curious. Also, I'm to understand regular iron pipe will last about 4 years. Stainless should double that right?

Thanks again!!!

[Marian Claire]

Beautiful! The "tombstone" cover on the reversing gear, head, prestolite distributor with clips and oiler thingy??, all say early model. I believe I see the oil dipstick but I do not see the oil fill Hmmm. See if there is a serial # on the plate on the reversing gear cover so we can date it. If you have a condenser on the exterior of the early/prestolite distributor then you probable have points, no condenser = EI. I do not have the V-drive but does it look like this? http://www.moyermarine.com/cgi-bin/s...rebuilder.html The next to the last part. Dan S/V Marian Claire

[edwardc]

... do not assume that every V-drive has 2:1 reduction! Mine is 1:1!

Wow! I've never even seen a 1:1 V-Drive! What length and displacement is your boat?

Edward - Why do you recommend against galvanized? I've seen other posts recommending it, just curious. Also, I'm to understand regular iron pipe will last about 4 years. Stainless should double that right?

Thanks again!!!

Galvanized pipe is coated with Zinc. The high temperatures of the hot-section will cause the Zinc to burn off, emitting copious quantities of very toxic fumes as it does. Not the sort of stuff you want in your boat. It will eventually all burn off, leaving you with the equivalent of having started with black iron in the first place.

As for stainless, I'm hoping it'll outlast the boat. However, there is the possibility that if water gets trapped under the heat wrap, the low-oxygen environment will allow crevice corrosion in the stainless and cause it to fail. Still, I would expect it to at least double the life of black iron. And it will always be a lot easier to disassemble.

[edwardc]

How do I know if it's a 2:1 reduction or not?

There should be a plate riveted to the side, like this:

[edwardc]

I've attached two pictures of the engine. I have others but this is what was on my phone.

Some more comments and observations on your photos:

1. The normal hard crossover tube of an early model engine appears to have been replaced with a pair of fittings and a hose.
2. The Alternator looks like an aftermarket one. Check to be sure it's not an automotive one (marine units are sealed to prevent the possibility of having internal sparks ignite any stray gas fumes). The external bolted-on regulator looks like an old mechanical automotive regulator. And the obvious splices yell out "replacement!".
3. Overall, the engine looks to be in very good condition, with little rust. This speaks of good care by the PO.
4. Looks like the OEM manifold has been replaced with one from Moyer, as indicated by the close-off plate on the unused flange.