Fuel System and shutdowns

[ArtJ]

I just completed a trip to beautiful Casco Bay and Penobscot Bay.
At the begining of the season on initial startup of the engine I had a
issue with needing to choke the engine to idle. I removed and cleaned
the main jet. That solved the problem. I swapped out the carb with
a brand new one I had stored aboard for a number of years. The rest of
the summer, till now was uneventful with engine running well.

Last season in dealing with a shutdown issue, replaced all hoses, including
tank pickup, removed screen, replaced electric pump, installed racor filter
and new in line filter, Added a fuel pressure gauge next to carb.
4 years ago I completely drained fuel tank and wiped out residues.
Since then I have kept tank over half full at all times, added mystery oil
and startron at end of season then topped off over winter.

Back to the Maine trip.

The first leg to Isle of Shoals 10 hrs at 1800 rpm engine ran great.
The second day to Casco bay ran 10 hrs, till ran into a brief squall
Engine then would not run above 1400 rpm.

Moored boat shortly after, pulled plug wires one by one, engine
had all plugs firing correctly.

checked fuel pressure, was low , pumped bulb got pressure up, but
creeped back down to zero and engine shutdown.
Checked for power to electric pump, ok . powered pump directly from
+12v, would not run. Replaced pump and in line fuel filter.
Engine appeared to be operating properly. Ran for 1 hr at mooring.

After a 2 night stay, left for boothbay Harbor. Engine ran for one
hour, then shutdown abruptly and would not restart. checked for
spark had spark. checked for fuel pressure, had fuel pressure.

Later in the day in a safe location, Bleed carb thru main passage.
Engine started and ran rest of the day.

At mooring in Boothbay, changed Racor filter cannister did a 2 hr
trial ran fine.

Later that evening, decided to do a overnight passage to Boston,
a 28 hr run, didn't leave earlier in the day because of large swells
and high wind on the nose.

The engine ran fine for about 7 hrs, then abruptly shutdown again
(no gradual shutdown). Was able to briefly get it to run with full
choke, but shortly shutdown permantly again.

Got the heck pounded out of us all thru a pitchblack night under
sail and a few passing cloud lightning and rain squalls.

At daylight was in the Middle of the gulf of maine heading for
Cape Ann off Gloucester Mass, Could not make enough
headway to take the shortcut thru the Annisquam River.
By late morning, the seas had subsided enough for me to
transfer 10 gals of fresh fuel into the tank.
I added mystery oil and Startron stabilizer.
I then bled the carb passage block again.
Had fuel to clean of of bilge, access not good enough to place cup
under carb, used paper towels.

Engine ran great in calm seas the last 65 miles back to Boston.

I am wondering a couple of things:

I have not drained tank for 4 years. How do I pump(with what ) safely a low
mounted tank that is below the water line? It the past the boat was out
of the water which made siphoning possible.

I have never drained the Raycor, which was new a year ago.

Finally, am I missing something else?
I was surprised by the abrupt shutdowns, but believe they are fuel
related.

Regards

Art

[hanleyclifford]

It is notable that you ran well in calm seas but had trouble in weather. The fuel is probably being jostled and bringing the bad stuff up from the bottom of the tank. Somehow the system has to be cleaned dry.

[ArtJ]

Thanks Hanley

I wonder how often tanks should be emptied and cleaned these days.
Also, what type and mfr of pump can be used while in the water and low
mounted tank.

Regards

Art

[Kelly]

Cleaning gas tank

Hello Art,

Sounds like frustrating sailing when you can't be confident in your engine.

Are you avoiding taking the tank out of the boat for cleaning? Is it not feasible without major headaches? I recently did this and bit the bullet by pulling up the part of the deck covering the tank area (my deck and cabin are all wood). In this way, you can be sure to REALLY get the tank clean by sloshing solvents inside and being able to look inside to make sure it shines.

If this is not possible, why not use one of those not-too-expensive hand pumps used for oil changes? You can use the length of pick-up tube you need to get to the bottom of the tank and pump out the crud over several sessions. Just use the electric pump on your engine to get the fuel to the bottom of the pick-up tube and finish it off by hand.

My 2 cents.

[hanleyclifford]

Art - Two types of pump come to mind. One is the old brass hand suction rigged with a long 1/4" tube; the other a drill type pump. If your fuel tank fill is a straight shot to the bottom of the tank you are really happy. As I have said before, my policy now is to drain and fog all tanks when not in use. The age of ethanol has changed everything. Regards, Hanley

[ndutton]

Two types of pump come to mind. One is the old brass hand suction rigged with a long 1/4" tube; the other a drill type pump.

An electric drill, even a battery operated one, as a component in a gasoline transfer system makes me nervous. If it were ignition protected I might relax (are there any?). Please, please be careful in this exercise.

[Al Schober]

I did this job about 5 years ago using the same pump Kelly shows, except I used a 5 ft piece of copper tubing to get to the bottom of the tank. In my case, it was accessed through the deck fill. I would NOT use any kind of electric pump or vacuum for this job!
There's no need to pump the whole tank dry. I pumped a gallon from the bottom of the tank into a clear glass jug and let it settle. There was an obvious separation between gas and dirty water. The gas went through a coffee filter/funnel and back into the tank.
In my case, I think the water was getting in through the fill cap. The cap is supposed to have an o-ring to seal it, but it had gotten brittle, broken, and gone away.

[ArtJ]

Much thanks guys!

I think I already have one of the oil change mechanical pumps kelly described.

Could the large blue metal tank type with a hand pump be used as well?

I also have a plastic pump used with keroscene heaters.

I have access directly by removing the gauge. I cleaned the tank
out that way a few years back, at the bottom I wrapped a small
rag around a piece of wood to clean crap from very bottom as tank
is v shaped on Tartan 34 and under port settee.

How often should Racor filter be drained of water?
Thanks again everyone
Art

[ArtJ]

Much thanks guys!

I think I already have one of the oil change mechanical pumps kelly described.

Could the large blue metal tank type with a hand pump be used as well?

I also have a plastic pump used with keroscene heaters.

I have access directly by removing the gauge. I cleaned the tank
out that way a few years back, at the bottom I wrapped a small
rag around a piece of wood to clean crap from very bottom as tank
is v shaped on Tartan 34 and under port settee.

How often should Racor filter be drained of water?
Shouldn't the Racor filter have prevented the final shutdown since it
was brand new with zero hours?
Thanks again everyone
Art

[rigspelt]

I had some spare 5/16" A-1 fuel line left over from the refit. Rigged an outboard hand pump bulb in the middle of it. Others report it only takes up to half an hour to empty several gallons this way. I'll report back after winterizing.

[David Masury]

When you have the boat on ther hard for the winter layup, syphon the fuel our of the tank... just a long hose and maybe the fuel bulb to get things going. Have a couple of empty fuel containers on the ground outside the boat... the tank should be cleaned. If you can get the tank out, take it to a radiator shop and for a few bucks they will get it clean. Then you can inspect the tank for corrosion, fit new gaskets, paint it... and next season you will not have troubles from crud in the tank...

Oh, come back to Maine next summer, we have a lot more cruising ground for you to explore... contact me and I can point you in the right direction. At least where you can get inexpensive crab rolls.

David

[ArtJ]

Will do Thanks guys

[Mo]

I had the same problem last weekend. Tuesday rigged my spare electric fuel pump to a line in the tank and the other end off the pump to a gas can. I let the boat sit overnight at the dock before I stuck the line into the tank. Pump rigged with a pos and neg to battery. Didn't get alot of water out because I changed my filters and separator 3 times the two days previously enroute when having problems. Been running great since and had her out in a swell yesteday to check....all good.

[ArtJ]

I had the same problem last weekend. Tuesday rigged my spare electric fuel pump to a line in the tank and the other end off the pump to a gas can. I let the boat sit overnight at the dock before I stuck the line into the tank. Pump rigged with a pos and neg to battery. Didn't get alot of water out because I changed my filters and separator 3 times the two days previously enroute when having problems. Been running great since and had her out in a swell yesteday to check....all good.

Maurice
Did you use the normal fuel line and pickup in the main tank or
Did you stick your line thru access into the very bottom of a mostly filled main tank and
drain off a few gallons? was the tank mostly empty?

[ArtJ]

a few questions and comments remain:

1. This experience showed that fuel related shutdowns can be sometimes
be abrupt. (why? dirt in jet?)
2. A weak? pump or fuel problems can cause lower rpm despite throttle
setting increases, yet engine running normally without missing?

3 How often should Racor filter be drained?

Thanks

Art