Inherited Atomic 4

[edwardc]

... The head at least is a late model with the t-stat dome & 1/2" hose over to the (non-Universal brand) manifold. However, I am going to guess it is a late model head on an early model block since you do not have an oil fill over the flywheel....

Definitely an early model block, but towards the end of the run, judging by the 3/12/67 casting date.

Interesting engine. Late head, early starter, carb, possible late manifold, Sherwood? water pump...should be fun.

Also looks like an early-model accessory drive, with a mechanical tach takeoff.

In the early model, the distributor hold-down bolt went into a tapped hole on the accessory drive. In the late model, it goes into a tapped hole in the block. If you're not careful when mixing and matching early and late model parts, you can end up with no place to bolt-down the distributor (don't ask me how I know this....)

[Sony2000]

I commend you on your project to build the identical boat from plans. The original boat had a 30hp diesel. The equivalent to an Atomic 4 in diesel, is 12hp., to achieve the same torque. Your project boat will be grossly under powered and I would seriously consider installing a 30hp diesel. The Atomic 4 is not appropriate, but you may have already considered what I'm saying. Please excuse me for being contrary to the idea, but I don't want to see you going down the wrong path.

[Ball Racing]

If you can shove a 35 ft. sailboat with a A4 in displacement mode,
you should surely be able to shove a 18ft. tug in displacement.

[hanleyclifford]

If you can shove a 35 ft. sailboat with a A4 in displacement mode,
you should surely be able to shove a 18ft. tug in displacement.

Hear, Hear!

[thatch]

"A Yes Vote"

John,
Having built 3 "Glen-L" boats; a "Zip", a "Hot Rod" , and a "Bonanza", I can testify that the rewards of "doing it yourself" are significant. If, after installing an A-4 in the boat you have chosen, proves to be a mistake, you can always make a power change later on. I, personally think that an A-4 is a perfect choice as a power source for that boat.
On a personal note, recently, I had the priveledge of spending about a half hour with Glen L. Witt, in person, where we discussed the boat building projects I had undertaken. In my opinion, his contributions to small boat building are greatly underrated.
Tom

[John Fosdick]

Inherited Atomic 4 continued

Thanks again for all of your feedback. I have a few irons in the fire right now (even though I'm retired) and I'm working on the engine when I get the time. I have the manifold off and I will be cleaning it out with muriatic acid.
What is the best acid to water ratio?
Next I want to strip off the old paint before I remove any more parts.

Reading through the most recent reponses I see that there is some disagreement as to my A4 being a good match for the 18ft tug that I will be building. I naturally have wondered the same thing, which was why I posed that question to you all for feedback. The plan ad lists a suggested power range of 10-30hp (it doesn't specify gas or diesel) and a hull speed of 6kts.
Does having the reduction gear work to my advantage?

I am going to contact the folks at Glen L, where my wife bought the plans, and get their input regarding the Atomic 4 for the tug.

Either way I'm aiming on getting her back together and running on a test stand by this Spring or Summer (have to give myself some leeway). I will certainly keep you posted.

Thanks for all of your help and advice,

John

[sastanley]

John, I think the water to muartic acid ratio is 3:1. If you plan to do any work on this Atomic 4 at all, the investment in the Manual from Moyer Marine is worth the $$$. It answers these types of questions.

Daniel (Ball Racing) is one of the guys that has put an A-4 into a Chesapeake Bay deadrise...he is exactly the type of resource you need for the pros & cons of whether or not to put this motor in your tug. Since the tug won't plane (I think) I would keep the reduction gear..this allows you to spin the motor a little faster while spinning a larger prop slower, & unload the bearings & keep the motor happy (& it keeps it from lugging & actually can reduce fuel consumption in some cases).

One of the problems us sailors have is that we can't get the RPMs up enough with the direct drive (prop spins same RPM as motor) at 5-ish knots & the engine tops out around 2,000 RPM.

[lat 64]

Highball it!

John,
One way to get the feel for what an a-4 can do is talk some sailboat owner into giving you a ride. You will however, look for a while before you find an a-4 powered boat that is as light-displacement as your intended project.
I see that quite a few river cruisers in England just use 10-hp Hondas for primary engine.

http://motorboats.apolloduck.co.uk/listings.phtml?view=1&layout=1&cid=226&fx=USD&minl=0&type=&minv=&maxl=0&limit=10&maxv=&sort=3

They look like the same as what the Goliath was designed for, just knocking about and having fun.

Big power is for planing hulls. It takes some real juice to get a boat on step. Sony2000 is right about a gas engine having less torque ( all else being equal), but I don't think you would be underpowered at all. The design range was stated here as 10-30 hp. Lots of flexibility there. Thrust is the issue in the end, and that book about propellors is a real eye opener.

I still have my Glen L. catalog from 1980. Dreams never die.

Russ

[CalebD]

Geoducks

It took my some time to search the forum for 'geoducks' and all of ThomasJ's threads came up.
A4 overhaul:

http://www.moyermarine.com//forums/showthread.php?t=5127

Variable pitched prop assembly:

http://www.moyermarine.com//forums/showthread.php?t=5123

Fresh water cooled (FWC) option:

http://www.moyermarine.com//forums/showthread.php?t=5125

His boat was not a tug but more like a launch boat. I can't comment on whether the A4 is an appropriate engine for your project so I'll leave that to the rest of the gang.

[Sony2000]

The tug will be used primarily as a launch, so the weight of the Atomic 4 would diminish the number of passengers allowed on board, compared to a diesel with 1 or 2 cylinders. The sound of a one cylinder diesel would animate the children. If going green is a consideration, put a golf cart electric engine in the tug. The torque would be even better than that of a diesel.

[John Fosdick]

Ordered Manual

Hi all, I just ordered the manual from Moyer Marine. I look forward to its arrival.

This morning I confirmed that I do have a 2:1 reduction gear. I used my hand crank, put her in gear, and observed a bolt on the prop shaft coupling as I hand cranked. I also determined that some or all of my valves are stuck (not surprising considering how long she's been sitting) by placing my thumb over the spark plug holes as I cranked. #4 was the only cylinder to produce a little compression. I'll pop the side cover on the block next to give the valvestems some soaking w/MMO.

Keep posted,

JOhn

[John Fosdick]

Removed valve cover on the side of the block

Hi all,
I grabbed a few minutes this afternoon to work on my baby. I removed the valve cover and was pleased to see it looked very clean in there. The thin copper oil supply line that feeds this area also was free and clear. I hand cranked her some more and noticed that the #1 exhaust valve is stuck fully open. All of the lifters are operating and rotate easily when not under compression. I redid the "thumb compression test" and felt and heard some pressure in 2, 3, and 4. I will eventually be removing the head to check for cracks and see if I can get #1 exhaust valve freed up. First, as I mentioned earlier, I will clean up the outside of the engine and removed components.

Is the A4 a clockwise or counter clockwise rotation?

Again, thanks for all of your help,

John

[Laker]

John-

My opinion , non-scientific :

My Columbia 34 has a 10 ft beam , displacement of 10,000# plus gear , crew (family) and beer. My Atomic 4 gets me to hull speed with throttle to spare. I think that you have a good match for your little trawler.

Have a ball , CJK

[Ball Racing]

clockwise from stern, right hand wheel.

[sastanley]

John, there should be a small arrow on the flywheel cover..but maybe not on the cast early model. As Ball Racing noted (Daniel is one of those guys that built a deadrise and stuffed an A-4 in it..he can run about 11 knots!) if you are looking at the back of the motor facing forward, right hand rotation..what that really means is when you jam a crank handle in the flywheel in front you are actually spinning it counter-clockwise. To further 'confuse' the issue, #1 cylinder is the one closest to the flywheel.

Before you remove the head, try squirting some Marvel Mystery Oil (or the Canadian guys use ATF) into the spark plug holes and then spin the motor around a few times & let her sit overnight..sometimes this will help free up sticky valves...you probably won't have much luck freeing them up on the valve cover side, except for observation.

Good choice on the manual...when you go to take this thing apart and freshen it, everything you need to know will be in there.