moyer stand pipe install for E27

[Scott Abbott]

I have installed new rebuilt and have removed all of the old exhaust system. I am at marina now and can't find info on install that came with muffler. Question i have is: does the out flow from stand pipe have to have positive slope to hull exit? If so i can't install it because i don't have the room. Anybody?

[ndutton]

First, your question demonstrates you already have an understanding of a standpipe system. It's a great question.

You are correct. A proper standpipe installation has the exhaust hose running downhill to the thru-hull outlet. In that way the cooling water drains naturally and requires no exhaust pressure for lift or expulsion.

I looked at the Ericson 27 drawings on SailBoat Data and wonder why the standpipe could not be mounted high in the port cockpit locker behind the galley, right under the cockpit seat. The hot pipe that enters the bottom of the standpipe would have to be plumbed to the port side slightly. If you can find information on the Newport 30 installation on this forum and elsewhere it should help.

One more comment, I looked at the Moyer standpipe. I understand the problem, it's really tall. I believe it was designed specifically for mid engine Tartans with placement in a pocket at the head bulkhead.

[Scott Abbott]

guess i have a mess on my hands

I have the Moyer stand pipe at the yard and it doesn't look good. The E27 originally came with a stand pipe...however the wet exit was higher than this new one. Can i not put a rise in soft pipe after exit not unlike a water lift? Otherwise i have to return it and this is a wasted trip.

[ndutton]

You really have to be careful using a standpipe as a waterlift, they're not designed for that application and therefore you risk water incursion into the engine depending on a number of factors including the internal geometry of the standpipe and the relationship of the uphill hump.

If you determine a downhill run cannot be made the smart move is to get a waterlift. As big a hassle as a wasted trip and returning the standpipe might be, an engine water incursion is far worse.

[Scott Abbott]

guess i have a mess on my hands

I have the Moyer stand pipe at the yard and it doesn't look good. The E27 originally came with a stand pipe...however the wet exit was higher than this new one. Can i not put a rise in soft pipe after exit not unlike a water lift? Otherwise i have to return it and this is a wasted trip.

[TomG]

Scott,

I'm not familiar with the layout of the E27, but I do have the MMI standpipe in my Tartan 30. As Neil mentioned, the MMI standpipe was designed for the Tartan 30 and 34 and it is a wonderful piece of engineering and I'm so thankful to Don and his crew for putting this product out for sale. As you've probably figured out, the MMI standpipe is designed to gravity drain and it is mounted rather high to allow that effect. What you might consider, and I would call Don or Ken and discuss first, is to mount the standpipe horizontally (or even a 45 degree angle) rather than vertically. Your available space will have a lot of bearing on this approach and certainly ask Don his opinion about this as well. My concern about a horizontal installation would be hot spots along the top of the outside and water flooding the hot section as the boat heels. I just don't know how the cooling water is diffused inside the standpipe, but Don probably could offer some valuable insight. I would not put a drop in the exhaust hose (creating a low point) to use the standpipe. I would probably consider a regular water lift if the standpipe wouldn't fit.

[hanleyclifford]

Perhaps a second exit, higher on the standpipe, could be cobbled by a good shop?

[romantic comedy]

My understand of the standpipe is that it needs to be vertical.

Is there an internal diagram of it anywhere?

Typically there is an internal pipe that the exhaust flows thru. It goes almost up to the top where it then goes into the outer pipe. The water flows into the outer pipe, but not as high as where the exhaust comes in.
This is the idea behind the stand pipe.. I cant imagine another design. Also why it needs to be mounted well above the water line.

If the pipe is turned on its side, the water would flow back into the exhaust of the engine.

[hanleyclifford]

My understand of the standpipe is that it needs to be vertical.

Is there an internal diagram of it anywhere?

Typically there is an internal pipe that the exhaust flows thru. It goes almost up to the top where it then goes into the outer pipe. The water flows into the outer pipe, but not as high as where the exhaust comes in.
This is the idea behind the stand pipe.. I cant imagine another design. Also why it needs to be mounted well above the water line.

If the pipe is turned on its side, the water would flow back into the exhaust of the engine.

Exactly. The pipe must be vertical, but need it be as high as the one under discussion? Obviously the protection it affords the engine increases in proportion to the height, but perhaps less height and protection would be tolerable for some of us. I have studied the Moyer unit some and tried to figure out some kind of way I could use it, and I always come up with the conclusion that I just don't have the required height in my port cockpit locker. But if the exhaust fitting were 4-5 inches higher on the pipe..?

[romantic comedy]

Hanley, I suppose a test could be done to see how far the water rises inside the standpipe. I have always wondered how far up the water actually goes. Of course it depends on the volume and pressure of the cooling water.

If the water flow was too much, it would overflow into the exhaust, as you know. The water and exhaust need to flow downhill, so it needs to be at least that height.

Also the top, where the exhaust flows into the larger chamber, needs to be above the water line at all angles of heel and sea conditions. This point seems to be the limiting factor for many applications.

[hanleyclifford]

The water is injected at the top of the standpipe where it is deflected to the wall that it may not enter the exhaust coming from the engine. The water fills the standpipe up to the point of exit to the transom, which point must be above the transom discharge fitting. In older units the discharge was not necessarily at the very bottom of the standpipe but later units seem to have the discharge right at the bottom presumably to keep the pipe as empty as possible when engine is not running.

[romantic comedy]

sounds the same as my 40 year old one on my Tartan.

Hanley, how high could you mount a standpipe. mine is mounted one foot below the cabin top, close to the center line, in the middle of the main cabin.

[hanleyclifford]

I could create an installation very much like the one Neil posted in post #2. Notice how much shorter that unit is compared to the one from Moyer Marine. Of course it would not be on centerline but I think it would take a near knockdown to endanger my engine.

[toddster]

I have the Moyer standpipe installed in my E29, pretty much as shown in the diagram above. It was almost an exact size match for the original. Although the E29 and the E27 are very similar boats, I suspect that the cross-section at the engine is somewhat smaller in the E27, so I'm not sure if that's relevant. The exit point is substantially lower than the original, but it is still higher than the through-hull.

One nice thing about that installation on my tiller-steered boat is that it keeps the helmsman's seat nice and warm in the winter time *sigh* now if only someone would bring an ice-breaker into the marina and clear a path to open water.

[alcodiesel]

Hi Todd, I'm getting ready to replace the whole exhaust system. The Moyer standpipe is 20" tall which is the size of what's in the boat now. The exhaust exit on the Moyer is at the bottom. So did you simply run the hose up from the standpipe exit then down to the transom?