Indigo

[ndutton]

I suspect that by the time Shawn gets the old one out, it will be damaged beyond recognition,

I hadn't read that Shawn had decided on replacement, hence the question on strategy. Having installed literally hundreds myself I have a real interest with how he intends to proceed.

[sastanley]

i am no expert!

Hi Neil,
Since I've installed and repaired exactly zero, I'd be interested in your opinion.

What do you think of the strategy I've considered above?

I assume I'd have a pretty big hole in the boat and lots of glassing to do at both ends if I were to grind that thing out of there, and I am not sure if it is necessary?

edit - here are two more pics to help show what appears to be minimal wear on the log, other than what we can see visibly at the end.

It took me a few minutes to remote in to my garage PC from work and send them to myself

[ndutton]

I hope you keep a watchful eye on this thread this morning, this will be post #198 and it would be fitting that you have the honor of posting #200.

This response will be brief as I am late for work. More detail this evening. My initial thought on repair is to be sure to address the restoration of the I.D. as well as the O.D. Log replacement would be a thorough repair but will require removal of a generous section the cabin sole to do it properly.

More later. Congrats on a pending 200 post thread.

[Dave Neptune]

Prop

Thatch, is your A-4 in your Cat 30 a 2:1 or a direct drive? If it is direct we know the Indigo WORKS very well and I am one that would recomend it to any one using a direct drive A-4. The Campbell we are playing with is on a 2:1 application and we are working on getting the proper rpm. I will be doing some trim work on it perhaps next week in my shop so we don't have to send it back and fourth to Canada.

Shawn, it certainly looks as if you are on track to do a better job than Buttler's crew ever did! I had the same issues with my shaft regarding rubbing in the log due to allignment. I needed a fresh spot for the log so since I had the room I added a longer hose. I will reallign when the A-4 falls off the stock steel rails which should be soon. I'm afraid the the rails would not withstand the torque of getting the mounts to move, so it sits. I don't worry to much as my shaft is 3/4 (flexible SS) and 42" long.

Dave Neptune

[tenders]

I would look into sleeving the old shaft log, using the existing remnants as a guide rather than cutting out, replacing, and realigning everything from scratch.

It sounds like you're getting shafted from the folks you've gotten quotes from already. Shafts aren't hard to make and are easy to ship. You might get a more competitive quote on your shaft from H&H Propeller in Salem, MA.

http://www.hhprop.com/

There's tons of good information on ericsonyachts.org on how to get your old cutless bearing out and a new one in. It's much easier than what you had to do to get the shaft out of the coupling. Google (or Froogle) around to get the best price on a new bearing -- I was appalled when I realized how much West Marine marks theirs up. The price I got from somebody in Florida ended up being 1/3 what West charges. Cutless bearings are sized by shaft diameter and if your strut bearing is a little shorter than the bearing, there's no harm in having the cutless bearing hang out a bit.

[sastanley]

Ah, I missed it...but I did start a new page.

Technically, this is the 200th reply

tenders..thanks for the link. I have sent them an inquiry.

So far, most of the stuff seems reasonably priced..while I enjoy keeping my local West Marine in business since they are convenient, I don't see the necessity of wasting money for these items there. Deep Blue Yacht Supply comes recommended from some of the C-30 crowd.

cutless bearing - http://www.deepblueyachtsupply.com/c...sbearings.aspx

stuffing boxes - http://www.deepblueyachtsupply.com/series.aspx?id=185

do I need to spend money on these fancy alloy shafts or is 303, 304, or 316 SS good enough?

[thatch]

"Now is the time for .....etc."

Shawn,
Now that the milestone is passed it's time to get back to work (not that you ever stopped). The time to align your A4 is now, before any of the shaftlog rebuilding begins. After you have installed the new strut bearing, reassemble the old propshaft (providing that it's straight), and the coupler and start working on those motor mounts. Then, after you're comfortable with the positioning, rebuild the shaftlog area. This will insure that the rubber hose and new (dripless?) seal will line up nicely.

Dave N.
The A4 in my Catalina 30 is a 1:1 unit so I'm pretty sure I'll wind up with the Indigo prop. On another note, while doing an MMO treatment on the engine recently, I noticed that there were actually Champion J8's instead of the J12's that I thought were in there. Needless to say I changed them out for 12's and was quite surprised at how much crisper the motor felt. Max hull speed remains at about 6.4 knots with almost no speed change between 2/3 and full throttle, just loss of vaccum I assume.
Tom

[Dave Neptune]

Plugs

Tom, I ran both the 8's and the 12's before I installed the Indigo and I didn't notice any differance other than the 12's stayed a bit lighter in color. Since I have gone to the Indigo I have gone down 1-jet size (leaner). Now that I have another 4~500 rpm's I have notice an improvement of almost 200rpm going from the 2 year old 12's back to the 8's. I think with the extra power (heat) available the 12's are a bit to hot above 1500 rpm for my (Indigo)application. I went back to the 12's to double check and on the fresh ones I still lost 150rpm's, so I reinstalled the 8's and the rpm came back and this was with comprimised fuel. FYI since I installed an electronic ignition 25 years ago I have been gapping my plugs at .038~040" (larger gap acts a bit like a hotter plug) and have had no idle problems whatsoever. After the next cruise I should have "GOOD" fresh fuel in the beastie and I will re-run the tests. To tell you the truth I was quite surprised of that much improvement on my ole original 40 year old A-4 with 70~80 psi of compression left.

Dave Neptune

[sastanley]

Dave, your plug info is fascinating. Even though I've only put a couple hours on it, I can't tell any difference running the Autolite 437's in the A4. I also have the 303's as spares which I used last year, and I think are equivalent to the Champion J12's. That boat came with the J8's, but I think I only took it to the travel lift in 2008 with those.

I'll have to keep all three sets around and play with them myself. My wife loves it when I ask her to take the tiller so I can go play with the motor!

[Administrator]

I would guess that both Don and Tom Stevens are following this thread with considerable interest.

Bill

[sastanley]

two entirely different topics under "Indigo"

Bill, I almost need to break it up...this part of the thread has nothing to do with the Indigo prop..I should have started a new thread..if we changed it now though, people following it may get lost

[Dave Neptune]

Threads

Shawn, I think that this thread has been a "gob" of "related" bits of information regarding the Indigo, your adventures to get the Indigo installed and a bit of what has been found by a few of us with the Indigo. This has also been a great thread to follow due to all of the ideas related to modifying the drive line due to your "it's gotta be right" attitude and I admire your conciensus efforts. Personally I'm a bit lazy and would have made it a winter ( in southern California) project.

That's why I started the separate thread for the 2:1 guys, which may also prove to be a good one in time.

Kudos to ya Shawn and it's almost my fault (??)!

Dave Neptune:cool

[rigspelt]

1. Glad we got the 200 threshold out of the way.
2. Somehow I am having no problems following this multithreaded thread.
3. Shawn: I don't understand why the old shaft is worn at the place you labelled "shaft log".
4. I'd get a new shaft.
5. I'd have a low threshold for replacing the cutless bearing now while that shaft is out.

[ndutton]

This thread has turned into a woven fabric

As promised (or warned) here's my take on Shawn's Holy shaft log:

What went wrong?
From the photos it appears that there were at least two problems that conspired to hole the shaft log (maybe three if the shaft was tweaked). First, looking at the outside dimension of the log, there’s a reduced O.D. just behind the end. I know of no condition in use that would cause it and believe it was done at the factory. It was likely worked over with a grinder to fit the stuffing box hose and only on the top because they couldn’t get to the bottom with a 7" grinder. By taking down the top of the log only (rather than evenly all around), twice the necessary material was removed to fit the hose resulting in a very thin area. Secondly, the shaft was not centered in the log and of course was rubbing on the already thin portion. 1 + 1 = 2, thin wall + chafe at precisely that spot = hole.

So, what to do?
Shaft log replacement is certainly an option albeit a labor-intensive one, maybe we’ll discuss it another time. Repair was mentioned rather than replacement and I believe a satisfactory repair to the existing log can be achieved so let’s head down that path.

The following assumes the shaft log was originally installed in proper alignment with the strut. As I said in an earlier post, I feel the wear on the inside needs to be addressed as well as the outside. With the inside wear there’s a thin area on the top of the log beyond where the hole wore through. That needs to be restored to get back to the original wall thickness. The first step is the grinding and there is much to be done. You’ll need to grind off the thin section of the log, nearly a quarter to a third of the log top, generously beveling the edges of the remaining glass. The finished hole should look like a parabola with the open end toward the engine. Grind all around the log to remove any paint or surface coating where the lamination will adhere, just down to the glass, underneath too. Then, place a snug fitting mandrel inside the shaft log to serve as a molding surface (same way the log was originally made and be sure it is thoroughly waxed). Laminate alternating layers of mat and cloth (no woven roving, it’s too coarse) with each mat/cloth combination a little bigger than the last. You’re trying to work your way up the bevel you ground in earlier. I’d suggest four mat/cloth layers with 2 UDR (Uni Directional Roving) applications in-between, in this order: mat-cloth, mat-cloth, UDR, mat-cloth, mat-cloth, UDR. To place the UDR, hold one end of the strand bundle, dip it into your binding material (epoxy or polyester resin), lace the center of it under the shaft log, bring the two ends up each side of the log and overlap one across the other. It should look like those yellow magnetic ribbons everyone has in the back window of their minivan. Allow the mat/cloth layers to extend beyond the end of the log so you can grind a clean and square end later.

That lamination schedule should give you sufficient wall thickness and strength. You’ll no doubt have to grind the repair a little to get a good smooth fit with the shaft log hose. Don’t do it like the factory, we’ve seen the result of that.

Brief word on shaft alignment: I recommend aligning the shaft before installing the stuffing box and connecting hose. This is the only way to be sure the shaft is precisely centered in the shaft log. Then pull the shaft to install the stuffing box. That should get you really close to where you ought to be.

Final thoughts
You’ll need to fine tune your alignment after the boat is in the water.
After the repair, with the shaft out and before the stuffing box is installed, get some bottom paint inside the log.
The stainless type shaft alloys we used were either Monel or Sealloy.

[hanleyclifford]

inside damage

Regarding the restoration proposed by Neil I have the following questions. I agree with his discussion about repairing the damage to the top of the log, but are we able to discern how far aft it runs? Will it be possible to include all of the damage within the "parabola" described, without cutting well aft into the hull material itself? Also, looking at the damaged end it almost seems like the size reduction to accomodate the hose is a result of decreasing concentric layers of material, or even concentric tubes - apparently by design as Neil indicated. Perhaps it would be better to use a larger hose, and not grind away material. I believe the interior damage was caused by the front of the engine being to low and whipping the shaft upwards. Is it possible that the complications of this repair might be greater than those of a new installation?