How to destroy an A4

[domenic]

A must read for A4 owners:

How to Protect Your Engine from Ethanol | BoatTEST.com
How to Protect Your Engine from Ethanol ... When ethanol is placed in marine fuel it can infect your engine with troublesome maladies too numerous to mention. ...https://www.boattest.com/Resources/v...px?NewsID=3345 - 80k - Cached

[CalebD]

Thanks for the link.
We are already having E10 issues with our A4 because of our 20 gallon fuel tank (monel). We have found water and gunk in the bowl of our carb and water separator filter. This is an issue which makes starting the engine a crap shoot at best. At a minimum we need to drain and clean our fuel tank.
A 20 gallon fuel tank is great if you are doing coastal cruising and putting a lot of continuous hours on the engine. It is not great for us since we generally use the engine for sometimes only a few minutes on each end of a sail or race. I am considering plumbing for a smaller fuel tank like one used on a small motor boat (2 or 5 gallons) that would be removable and easily drained.

[domenic]

You would still need to drain the carb, fuel pump, and the lines. I just lost a fiberglass tank over the fuel. I could use a plastic tank...but, the fuel will destroy the A4. Ethonal is nothing but Corn Whisky. (alcohol.)

Maybe a small below deck plastic tank with a shout off...let the engine run out of gas that is in the lines.

[67c&ccorv]

Dom - can you tell us how ethanol fuel destroys an A4 engine?

[rigspelt]

A 20 gallon fuel tank is great if you are doing coastal cruising and putting a lot of continuous hours on the engine. It is not great for us since we generally use the engine for sometimes only a few minutes on each end of a sail or race. I am considering plumbing for a smaller fuel tank like one used on a small motor boat (2 or 5 gallons) that would be removable and easily drained.

Interesting thought. The key I guess is being absolutely certain of having sufficient range under engine only to have 1/3 tank in reserve at all times. For example, being on the edge of range in doldrum air and having to run all the way back in some kind of emergency, or having lost sails or rigging in heavy air and so unable to rely on sail alone to get back. At 1 gal/hour and 5 knots, a 6 gallon tank gives 4 gallon run = 20 miles if wind, tide and current favourable. That is a lot, actually, given it would be easy enough to carry a 5 gallon jerry can too, if it could be stowed safely.

Another option might be to clean out the main tank and not use it routinely, then rig the smaller tank for regular use, if there is room.

[Bill McNamara]

EtOH free

I was under the impression that SHELL V-Power (the high test) was free of ethanol, at least here in Canada?
Am I correct?
Something about Shell selling enough of their regular fuel, to make the "quota"?
Bill McNamara
Picton On.

[hanleyclifford]

Rigspelt - The idea of a small tank is viable. I have just "installed" a removable 6 gallon outboard tank in a cockpit locker. Of course, it has it's own shut off, quick change dedicated vent, and is firmly secured by chocks and bungi.

[David Masury]

Here in Maine, there was a rumor (actually, a news paper article) that the state was going to not allow Ethenol in gas, but I don't know when... I don't remember the reasons, but I am sure that all of us with older engines of various natures will appreciate the change back.

David

[hanleyclifford]

The link posted by domenic in #1 offers some interesting and scary thoughts. Since the water and other mess settles to the bottom of the tank, we should be happy to have the old style tank with drain at the bottom and use it regularly. My intention is to install a drain in my other tank (see what you have started, Neil!), and take samples at soon-to-be-determined intervals. In storage periods I will fully drain the tanks and fog with WD 40. In the face of ongoing and increasing contamination of our fuel supply we must take proactive and vigorous action.

[ndutton]

Oh - Oh

OK, I'm not the authority on this but I'm relatively certain that gasoline tanks are not to have any fittings other than at the top. Fittings on the sides are allowable a long as they too are located at the top. The reason for this is to eliminate potential leakage points.

In fact, the good (metal) tank manufacturers try to keep the seam welds at the top as much as possible by bending the angles at the tank bottom.

I should add that in consideration of tank crud, either by ethanol or other reasons, I regularly draw off 1 to 2 quarts of fuel from my tank for examination using my fuel polishing system. I examine it in a glass container for contaminants, then store it in the lawn mower fuel jug for use there. Drawing it through the fuel system pulls it off the bottom of the tank the same as the engine does in normal operation.

[hanleyclifford]

But the idea is to keep the crud out of the fuel delivery system altogether. In order to maintain our yachting standards virtue and compliance, why not develop a vacuum or scavenging tool that could be inserted into the tank from the fill to clean the bottom of the tank BELOW the fuel pick up point?

[domenic]

Dom - can you tell us how ethanol fuel destroys an A4 engine?

Ethonal eats fiberglass & metal tanks...this passes into the whole fuel system.

Ethonal draws water from the air into the tank via vents that marine fuel tanks are required to have.

Ethonal burns hoter than gas...the A4 is not designed for the pressure.

Engines designed after 2000 fair okay with Ethonal.

Filters will not seperate all the water from the fuel...you get water in the engine.

Ethonal goes bad if left in a tank for more than three weeks...if you drain the tank, the cost to dispose of the fuel can run $400.

Some fuels have 85% Ethonal.

Would you put water in your fuel system? Ethonal does.

Engines must start, and run when needed. Do a search on the net...we are not alone with the fuel problem.

[hanleyclifford]

Domenic - Your case (THE case) against ethanol, except for certain medicinal purposes, is hopelessly impeccable. But let us now focus on boat solutions since there is nothing we can do against politico-economic forces that we can hardly even identify. Regards Hanley

[Dave Neptune]

Tank maintenance!

I as a matter of my maintenance routine remove my pick-up tube from my tank every 2~3 years and insert a tube to the bottom corner of the tank and use a squeeze bulb to pump out whatever KRUD lurks there. Sometimes it comes out with water and a bit of junk. When I get to fresh fuel I reassemble.
One note though, I did shorten my pick up tube a bit as it was very close to the "bottom", I now leave about a gallon of fuel below the pick up instead of a quart or so. I still have yet to remove water from my Racor so the lil beastie below stays happy.

Dave Neptune

[domenic]

I agree with hanley...I don't believe we can change the system. Perhaps a new type of fuel system. I am thinking about a second source of power along with my A4. (which I love.) I just need fuel to get in and out of a marina...the rest of the time I have a sailboat, and I follow the rule; "Don't sail into anything you can't sail out of." If I have to lay off shore for two day with no wind, that's part of being a sailboat.


Recent studies at Cornell University, proves that producing ethanol is more trouble than its worth: 131,000 British thermal units of energy are required to produce a gallon of ethanol, which in return only produces 77,000 btu of energy. In other words producing ethanol results in a loss of energy. This explains the wholesale price of 75 cpl, compared with petrol of 6 cpl; there is also the risk of damage to fuel systems, & environmental consequences. Each crop produced depletes the soil.
Adding to or replacing the aromatics already in ULP with ethanol provides a real threat to health & environment. Ethanol destroys paintwork & fuels systems, plastics harden & crack, fuel lines dissolve, thus the growing increase in mysterious vehicle fires.