Broken head stud in the block - removal advice

[PassionOne]

So it all started two Saturdays ago. No wind, superflat seas, and a 3 hour motor trip ahead of me to visit my girlfriend on Martha's Vineyard.... What could go wrong?!?

My 1972 Atomic four in my Pearson 30 has been running great all season and I have some 230 hours on her since we launched in Mid-May (its early Sept when this happened). The engine is fresh water cooled and running at 180F at 1800 rpm and moving at 5.5 knots. I foolishly decided to get that up to 6 knots and brought the rpms up to 2000. Got right up to 6 and sounded fine. I usually didn't run her this hard and especially for an extended period of time, but given the extremely rare flat seas and zero wind we were having, I figured "What the heck!"

At this point, it struck me it was a good moment to use my phone to take a selfie video to send to Ken and Don for all their help supporting me in my endeavors at getting a 43 year old engine to provide me with so much fun these past two years. After the second take of the video, I put the camera down and tripped my foot on the throttle and knocked it up to 2300-2600 rpm for maybe 4 seconds before I reacted and brought the throttle back down to 1800 or so...

Within a few minutes I could hear a hissing with each stroke of the engine and quickly realized I had a real issue as the power output decreased substantially. I motored to a safe harbor 30 minutes away and immediately started me research... Good compression in 1 and 2 and barely any (and almost negative pressure at one point in the stroke) for valves 3 and 4.

I talk with Ken and Don and they say its a head gasket. I remove the head, take two days to clean off the awful green gasket and reassemble it all with a new head gasket.



The next part is my real problem... To torque the head studs I borrowed a torque wrench from AutoZone and also one from a friend who's son is big into customizing jeeps. The autozone one was in inch lbs and broke pretty quickly. Then the two foot long one I got from my friends son, when turned way down to 25lbs, didnt click at the torque setting and I ended up going way past what I should have... Stupid me, I know

Four studs ended up spinning and running the threads in the block... So I have to do a stud repair kit on those.
However, the piece de resistance in those whole disaster is this broken stud that is still in the block...




I need advice on how to get this broken stud out of the block. I have minimal overhead access, just enough to take the pictures you have seen and in my mind I still have six weeks left in my season and I'd like to not have to rely on sails only for that time. My pride is dreading the embarrassment of calling SeaTow to bring me to the ramp for my haul out.

I have two friends who fix cars, have some training and have lots of tools. So far, all Dremmel attachments we found were not strong enough the score the bolt and now we are thinking of tungsten bits but getting it to go in straight is a different problem. I would like to bring them a plan of attack that is informed by the greater A4 community and the body of knowledge you all have.

Thank you in advance!

(This shows the clearance I have in getting in the engine, the broken stud is #2 in the manuals tightening sequence and we as of now have the other studs in front of the broken one all removed for access.)

[hanleyclifford]

This is a tough one

If you are on the mooring without AC you will need a cordless drill and a 90 degree device to drill out the stud. The really hard part will be getting the center punch dead center in the nub and then drilling. I suggest starting with a 1/16" bit and then working up until you can get the threads out with some kind of pick tool (like a dentist uses, for example). A set of left hand bits would be the piece de resistance.

[zellerj]

centering the center punch

put the head back on, and use the stud hole in the head as a guide for the centering punch. Or you could use the proper size drill bit to remove about 1/8 in or so to make a great indent for your smaller bit, then work your way up until you can remove threads via a dental pick.

Jim

[PassionOne]

What type of drill bits?

Thanks guys. What type of material do you recommend the drill bits be made out of? That head stud laughed at the bits my buddy had on hand.

I live in New Bedford MA, home of the US Eastern fishing fleet and former home of Morse Tools. I am sure I can find any bits you can mention/I need within two miles of my house. When i bought the boat, it was an hour from here on Cape Cod and every supply trip turned into a half day jaunt.

I am on the mooring but not stuck on the mooring. If needed, this wouldn't be the first time I will be spotted towing my 30ft sailboat with a 5hp inflatable dinghy just to get to some AC power.

And as a side note I'm doing a personal challenge of sailing everyday in Sept for at least an hour and this challenge with the motor has not caused me to miss a day yet Now if I only could motor across the finish line on 9/30, that would be awesome

[PassionOne]

Another way of removing a broken stud

Found this on youtube and wanted to hear what others had to say about using this method on an A4 block while it is still in the engine compartment...

Start at 6:36 for the quick version...

[YOUTUBE]ffR2pGVGHbg[/YOUTUBE]

[hanleyclifford]

I have never tried that procedure. Are you that good with a welder? Remember, that guy had clear visibility and access. Also, he didn't have to deal with fuel and ventilation issues. If you have the time, I suggest shopping for the best set of left hand bits available, and have a quality tap on hand. It wouldn't hurt to have a stud repair kit from Moyer Marine at the ready just in case.

[Dave Neptune]

First try

Passion, the torque is off of the stud now. Often they can be removed easily without drilling!!!!!!
The torque against the stud was loading the top side of the threads so the bottom side "KRUDS-UP"! This KRUD can often be loosened and the stud can be easily backed out with a pic or chissle~depending on access. Get the stud soaking as I would assume you have and with a flat punch begin tapping on the stud. Look for any movement around the threads which will let you know it is loosening. Then with the edge of a chisel or pic you can begin tapping at the edge of the stud in the loosening direction. Tap lightly and patience will prevail. Done this many times, and yes I have had to drill a few too.

Hanley done the tig thing many times and it does work nicely. I still like "knocking the krud loose" and backing it out for the first try.

Dave Neptune

[hanleyclifford]

Passion, the torque is off of the stud now. Often they can be removed easily without drilling!!!!!!
The torque against the stud was loading the top side of the threads so the bottom side "KRUDS-UP"! This KRUD can often be loosened and the stud can be easily backed out with a pic or chissle~depending on access. Get the stud soaking as I would assume you have and with a flat punch begin tapping on the stud. Look for any movement around the threads which will let you know it is loosening. Then with the edge of a chisel or pic you can begin tapping at the edge of the stud in the loosening direction. Tap lightly and patience will prevail. Done this many times, and yes I have had to drill a few too.

Hanley done the tig thing many times and it does work nicely. I still like "knocking the krud loose" and backing it out for the first try.

Dave Neptune

Thanks for the reminder to try the easy stuff first.

[PassionOne]

Head studs repaired!

My buddy chose a few non-traditional approaches to the repair and I would like to hear comments...

So The long and short of it is that we fixed the stud by drilling it out w a tungsten bit and just eyeballing the whole thing.
Access was a nightmare, but after a few attempted starts, we got the broken stud drilled out.



The one of the REPLACEMENT studs I put in started spinning when it was time to torque down its nut. This was after torquing a bunch of other studs down to 25lbs and three weeks of waiting and working and then waiting some more. In the interest of not removing the head yet again and needing to clean and replace a head gasket for a third time in as many weeks, my buddy proposed and successfully completed an interesting trick. He took the tap for the REPAIR stud and tapped thru the head into the block subsequently re-tapping the block hole to fit a repair stud. The repair stud then went right in and torqued down to 30lbs w no problem.

We installed three replacement studs and two repair studs all torqued down to 30lbs and not leaking 10hrs of use after the completion of the repair. My friend refused to use JB Weld. He said it would make a re-repair practically impossible and said he never uses it to repair an engine.

A) Was tapping the head and then the block at once a mistake I will regret later?
B) Is leaving out the JB Weld a mistake? Ken swears by it.
C) Any other advice (obvious or otherwise)?

The problem took approximately a month to repair from Sept 15 until Oct 15th. The boat was sailed alot during that time, with the gas tank half empty (MMO and StarTron mixed in). The temperatures have certainly dropped since the problem began.

Observations from using the engine (w new head gasket):
The length of time needed to crank is longer. The length of time needed to choke is longer (or it stalls when released). The throttle needs to be set half way top full when cranking. There is a bit of white smoke/steam that I don't ever remember seeing this year or last year.

Last weekend, I had some rough running sounds. Checked the gas and it was filthy at the bottom. I drained it and discarded four gallons and a bunch of tree debris. Then blew the fuel pick up backwards into the tank to clear that out and added a gallon and drained it again. Fresh gas, mmo, startron and a new racor primary filter from Moyer and I'm back in business. The "observations from the new head gasket" above did not change pre to post fuel flushing.

D) Am I just to attribute these changes to the weather?

It doesn't seem like that's what it is because it happens on nice 60 degree days too. It takes at lease 15 mins of warming up before I can be pretty sure the boat wont die if I shift it into forward at and idle speed.

Thanks to everyone here! I wont be SeaTowed to the ramp for haul out this year

[JOHN COOKSON]

Sounds as if you are running somewhat lean.
Did you open the carb and clean out the various passages? For sure some of the crud that was in the tank is now in the carb raising hell.
Be aware that cleaning the carb is a futile exercise until you can supply it with pristine clean fuel.
Once you get the fuel side squared away and if you still don't have "explosive acceleration" check the timing and advance.

TRUE GRIT

I don't like the steam in the exhaust. You may need a pressure test of the block. Hold on this until others chime in.

[hanleyclifford]

Congratulations on a job well done under difficult conditions. The creative "tapping" approach should have no ill consequences save only the larger hole(s) in the head. I concur with your friend's attitude towards JB; it is a last ditch "Hail Mary" play and should only be used to seal a stud where a crack is obvious and there is little to lose. However, head studs should be sealed with something - I like Permatex #2 (the goo). Here's hoping your starting and white smoke issues are not the result of studs leaking. I recommend a pressure test at your earliest convenience.

[hanleyclifford]

BTW, remember to re torque the head after several running cycles until there is no movement.

[PassionOne]

Mission Accomplished...

I want to say thanks to everyone on the forum and at MMI for helping me have a great season! As always, I am open to listening and hearing your comments since this is how I have gotten this far! Thanks everyone!





I pulled the boat out yesterday and the bottom was just slimy but no hard growth. Looks like i might not need two zincs on that shaft either.





The motor has been performing great since the new head gasket and head stud repairs and the bad gas purge of the tank and filter I had to do on the first big trip after the boat had been sitting for a month with the previously mentioned repairs...

I dropped the rudder while it was on the truck so I can take it home and dry it out.



My list of projects for this winter are (in no particular order):
replace flame arrestor gasket / oring yet again
Adjustable main jet (still not sure if i need this)
OPSS
Paint engine
Install MMI belt tensioner arm and new MMI braket for it
replace gearbox gasket (i made one out of gasket paper from autozone but its probably the right thing to do to buy a good one)
Build an instrument pannel
Do acid flush, passage cleaning and pressure test
Build a "cage" or shield so my feet, sheets, dog, and friends stop bumping into the throttle and shifter controls. Its how I blew the head gasket to begin with. I have looked at teak magazine racks as the possible solution.

Non engine projects include:
installing a bow roller
courtesy lights in cockpit and engine compartment
hatch stops for 2 cockpit hatches
make swing open style (and removable) companionway doors
revarnish my wooden spreaders and the rest of the wood above deck
rebed all the stantions, jib tracks and bow pulpit
I want to replace my cove stripe with a black one and find a nice cursive scroll design for the stern end of the stripe

[PassionOne]

trolling for months

I forgot to mention... Did you notice the absence of a red tow boat next to me at the dock? Yeehaww! Thanks to the forum, I motored prodly to my appointment with the truck.

I also wanted to show you what has been stuck on my keel since begining of August. I was coming out of a narrow channel at Lake Tashmoo in Martha's Vineyard and a guy did not hear my calls to "reel in real in!" I caught his fishing line and four feet of it has been stuck on my keel until haulout. That is a few hundred miles of sailing for me.

[JOHN COOKSON]

I do one zinc on the shaft and a clam shell zinc on the strut. That way you are totally protected.
What brand of bottom paint do you use? Are you in salt or fresh water?

TRUE GRIT