Help!! How do you keep your fuel fresh?

[Cool Beans]

I'm getting ready for the first carb cleaning of the season. . .didn't take long at all for it to clog up this time, but I see this as a learning experience (it helps quell the RAGE ). . .

For those of you with permanent tanks of say, over 10 gallons, how do you keep your gas fresh and from getting contaminated and clogging the system? Do you just constantly top off and add sta-bil? Drain and refill every month/months on a schedule? What would you recommend to someone who just doesn't use their engine that much?

I want to install a permanent tank, but don't want to deal with having to drain 15 gallons of gas out of it every couple months because it has sucked up too much moister. . .nor do I want to have to put 1/2 gallon of gas in it every time I take it out because there is a 1/4" air space left from the days travel

More people seem to be doing it right, vs doing wrong. . .I want to know your secrets! Or point me to a CNG conversion kit, or at least a plastic/nitrophyl float so that older gas doesn't start to shed green crap into the main jet

Thanks!!

[sastanley]

i keep my fuel fresh by keeping as little in the tank as possible (over the winter)

Not everyone agrees with me, but that is what I do. This will be the end of the 2nd winter with a tiny bit of fuel in the tank, I'll let you know if she starts up OK.

That being said, I also use the Sta-Bil Ethanol stabilizer which I can get at Wal-Mart and I also run some MMO in it for valve lubrication.

[Mo]

Cool,
How often do you get down to the boat.
-If you typically motor a couple of hours a week you will use the gas before trouble gets you...meaning you will use it before it goes bad.
-If you can find non ethanol gas make the effort and use it. No need for aviation or high octane...just try and find gas that has no ethanol.
-stabil added with fresh / new gas works...if added to already old gas there's not much (if any) benefit./// again...if you use the engine a couple of hours a week you shouldn't need it for the summer. At the end of the year I throw a couple of stabil in the tank and fill it ... no ethanol. I also throw in a small bottle of gas line antifreeze at that point.

Note. If you have had condensation, water or dirt, getting into your system you will want to clear up the problem there. No additives are going sort that out definitively in the short term. Change out filters element if any doubt and put an auto type gas line filter just before the pump on the boat....works for me.

[CalebD]

Dirty fuel

Shawn may be on to something leaving less fuel in the tank over winter.

We have always topped off the tank but as you can see from the photo below the results of this practice are not stellar.
The black crud is not gas and the amber stuff is more like gasoline.
ETHANOL is the biggest problem as Maurice suggests. If you can get ethanol free fuel then by all means do so.
If not you are in for it if you use your engine as much (or as little) as we usually do.

I'd like to pump out my 20 gal. gas tank again this spring and look for more crud and phase separation this spring.
It is just one more 'maintenance' chore thanks to the corn farmers of the mid-west and their politicians.

I don't think there is a real easy answer to your question except due diligence.

[joe_db]

Three points:
1 - Your fuel shouldn't go bad THAT fast. Find out where all the water is coming from. Leaking fill fitting? Tank itself full of crud?
2 - If you really use that little fuel, go to the nearest airport and get avgas. I fill with avgas for my last tank in the fall because it keeps way better than car gas. That still won't keep the water out, but at least the water drops back out in the filter where you can drain it.
3 - Get a polishing filter from Moyer to help keep crud out of the carb.

OK - 4 points:
Get some of this: http://mystarbrite.com/startron/

I ended up replacing every bit of my fuel system over time. The fill hose was corroding and dropping rubber bits in the tank. The original tank was rusting from the inside out. The original fuel hoses were ruined by alcohol. I got a new cap for the fuel fill that actually keeps water out. I got a new fuel pump and a spare too. I even got a brand new carb.

[Dave Neptune]

Nothing special!

I use my ole beastie for about 9 months a year and it sits for the cold of our So. Ca.l aledged winter. I only add gas via a gas can form a busy major gas station and dump it in. I only add a bit of 2-stroke oil after I let her backfill with salt water~more times than I care to think of. Other than that I do nothing. I don't check filters or separators unless I am loosing fuel preasure (ie looking at the permanant inline gage I'm always preaching). NOTE~ I am still using the Racor filter and the inline I installed at the same time 7 years ago and have not touched them at all!!! If I find water because I've had a PROBLEM I change out the filter and suck the KRAP off the bottom of the tank which is about a gallon. I've done this maybe 3 times in 26 years and I have replaced my "lousy deck fill o-ring" about the same number of times.
My tank is 27 gallons and I keep it about half full unless I headed out for more than a long weekend. Other than performing the above when necessary I do nothing, other than enjoy the boat as a liquid bread platform !
At the start of last season before I started her for the first weekends venture I decided to take a look inside the carb since I was hearing of all the troubles of a few here on this forum. Well everything was just OK however this was the first time I saw green inside the bowl and on most of the brass. I screwedd the carb back together (didn't clean) and used it for the season~no problems and 19 trips to the island.
I personally feel that if you use the engine a bit you should not have much issue with the ethenol absorbing moisture from the atmosphere. But most cases I have worked on with water in the fuel issues were deck fill o-rings leaking. Common sence should incline us to keep the tanks fuller for less atmospheric influence.
I often use my A-4 to burn up old gas I accumilate from river toys, dingy tanks and buggies which is where most of the 2-stroke oil gets into my tank. I have found that with the low compression of the A-4 it is not to fussy regarding fuel quality, but as any gas engine it does not burn water!

Dave Neptune

[ndutton]

My boat doesn't get the use Dave's does. I too fill with only busy station gas, never the fuel dock. Beyond that our procedures differ.

I keep my tank full. My Dad worked his entire life in the aircraft industry and from him I learned aircraft tanks are kept full - always - specifically to minimize water in the fuel. If the cup is full there's no room for anything else.

Once a year I cycle my fuel through the filter for 30 minutes, change the filter cartridge and pour the contents of the old filter in a glass container to examine for contaminants. If anything shows up (never has) I'll dig into the system. If not, we're good to go for another year. The only fuel additive I use is MMO.

It might be overkill but I've never had a fuel quality problem.

[Mo]

When I first got the boat in 2007 a pretty knowledgeable A4 guy (Dave Potter) warned me of potential fuel issues. I tackled that before even trying to start the engine.

I took his advice and:

-drained, removed, and cleaned out the gas tank.
-new metal lines
-2 shut off valves..one at top of tank and one near separator in lazarette.
-kept the older fram filter (metal) and bought 4 elements for it....need to order more as the last one is in there.
-new rubber line leaving the metal one on bulkhead near engine...
-in-line filter
-new electric fuel pump and bought a spare as well...still on the first one.

I have had water and an odd bit of crud in a jet but no majors on fuel delivery...

I also realize that not everyone has the opportunity to tackle the boat as I did. Had it home in the driveway and refurbed pretty much everything.

Crud in a tank is as bad as a wiring short....enough to drive a man right up the 4awking wall. Good luck with the problem there Cool, hope it's just a minor... Have a good one guys!!

PS: if I am to have fuel (post winter storage) problems this year is the year. Temps up and down above and below freezing...really mild winter here as well.

[ILikeRust]

Just another data point suggesting that perhaps you don't have to worry about it quite as much as you might think you do.

In November 2010, I topped off my 20-gallon gas tank in preparation for winter - I always have understood it is preferable to have the tank as full as possible when it sits for a long time, to avoid having an empty air space that might allow condensation to form, or allow the lighter ends of the gasoline to evaporate out. I filled it right up to the filler neck. I used plain old, standard gas station gasoline that I carried aboard in 5-gallon jerry cans.

I also dumped in the required amount of Sta-Bil with the special ethanol-stabilizing additive.

I assumed I would be firing the boat back up around March or April of 2011. But as y'all know, that was not to be. I hauled the boat in January 2011, pulled the engine out in February 2011, and the boat sat on the hard for all of 2011.

I ran the engine for the first time after that in December 2011. I opened up the Racor filter and found it bone dry and barely dirty. Based on the records the P.O. gave me, he last replaced it back in 2009, if I recall right.

I hooked up the fuel line, opened the petcock, bypassed the OPSS to get the pump to run, and the engine fired right up and ran fine.

Second time I ran the engine was just about 3-4 weeks ago. Again, all I did was open the petcock and use that very same gas that has been sitting unused in that tank since December 2010. In fact, some of the gas is even older, because when I filled the tank in December 2010, it still had about 5 gallons in it. I added about 15 gallons.

On Feb. 26 (just over a week ago), I motored out of the boatyard and out into the Piankatank, and then motored up into Queens Creek without any trouble whatsoever.

I too was fretting a bit about how bad that gas might be, but it seems - at least so far - that all that fretting was needless. So now I'm starting out this season with a full tank of 15 month-old gas.

[ILikeRust]

PS: if I am to have fuel (post winter storage) problems this year is the year. Temps up and down above and below freezing...really mild winter here as well.

I think this also is an important point. I would think that Maurice is much more likely to have these kind of fuel problems than maybe Neil or Dave, because Maurice's weather is going to be much more up and down, wet and rainy, cold, humid, hot, etc., whereas Neil and Dave are in sunny So Cal, where it "never rains", right guys?

But seriously, I would think this kind of condensation is much less likely in the L.A. area, which tends to have much more relatively constant temps and low humidity, than in The Great White North...

[JOHN COOKSON]

My $0.02 Worth. On Second Thought Make It Free.

Cool B.
IMO you need to figure out why your fuel is getting crappy so fast (Joe db post #5) not continuning to clean up the mess. I don't have any specific suggestions how to go about this. I have the gut feeling that filters and additives will only prolong the agony.

TRUE GRIT

[roadnsky]

I'm with the majority, in that other than replacing/maintaining the fuel system,
probably one of the best things you can do is to fill with a non-ethanol, known source of fuel.
That's IF you can.

[hanleyclifford]

I like Neil's approach - run the fuel thru a recirculating loop with filters.

[positron]

The PO told me he had major problems with the engine, which was eventually traced to bad fuel. I gather he lost a season or two of sailing and wound up pulling the engine out to have a shop take a look at it. So I try to be pretty careful with the fuel system now. One of the POs cut off the gas uptake tube so it is about 4" above the bottom of the tank, probably to keep the crud in the tank from getting sucked up.
(I discovered this great feature when the difference between "actual " and "usable" volume became apparent one cold windy day after I removed the sails.)

I drain it completely in the fall, including adding a couple of gallons to the empty tank to rinse it out. I usually pull some crud out. In the spring, I add a gallon of gas, then pump it out to remove whatever might have condensed over the winter. I have a 20 gallon tank- if I I start with it full in the spring and that lasts me all year. I add the Starbrite fuel treatment and also some stabil.

I replaced all the rubber hose with new ethanol-friendly hose, after I found hose crumbs stuck in the carburetor jets. I have a Racor filter and a Moyer polishing filter. I never find any water in either one.

One handy idea that took me longer to figure out than I care to admit- an outboard motor priming bulb makes a great gas pump. I clamp a couple of long hoses onto it, and when the boat is hauled I can run one hose down though the cockpit drain to a gas can on the ground and it drains itself.

[Cool Beans]

Thanks for all the reply's, they are very informative

Firstly, there is no ethanol-free gas around here that I know of, in the 7 cities area. . .

The tank is a portable that is out of the rain, but is vented so it is open to expansion and humidity. . .and anyone familiar with this area knows how much and how often the humidity goes off the scale here

The fuel system is practically new. And the tank was so clean when I replaced everything I wouldn't have thought twice about mixing baby formula in it and letting one nurse on the fuel line, lol. . .I also don't trust the gas we buy from the pump, even at highly used gas stations. . .with all the rain/humidity/ground water I have a feeling I'm starting out with already crappy gas. .

Even though there is no phase separation, the green crud tells me there is enough water in the fuel to allow electrolysis to occur.

BUT! I was thinking at work, can I put a fuel shut off at the carb or mechanical pump? It isn't the fuel in the tank so much that is ruining the carb, it is the fuel in the bowl that sits there and slowly evaporates with the float sitting in turning green. it is also causing the valves and steel in the pump to corrode. After docking, I could turn the valve off and run the engine till the bowl is dry. . .or pump and bowl? The fuel sits in the pump indefinitely after a run, and in the carb bowl for over a week. . .slowly concentrating as it evaporates. . .

Maybe my plan of attacks could be:

-After sail, run fuel system dry
-Stabilizer
-Keep tank topped off, or change out old fuel every month

I don't use that much gas. . .even if I could go out once a weekend, at less than half a gallon per trip, it would take 3 months to burn down a tank. . .there is no crud in the tank, and I will check but like last time I doubt anything will come out of the filters. I beleive this all carb. . .

Thanks!

PS: I plastic float might solve all my ills. . .does anyone sell one or know if one can be made, or if there is a fuel proof coating I can put on my float?