Get it cranking again.

[Nate M]

Hello Everyone, This site has been tremendously helpful over the last few weeks and I'm hoping for a little more help. Recently I had an issue with a leaky Deck/hull joint and a pretty drippy stuffing box that intern with the rain we had in California and a failed automatic bilge pump resulted in about 3 inches of water being on the cabin floor and the trusty A4 sitting in about 4 to 6 inches of it. Now before this the motor was running great started on the first or second try but after it was sitting in the water for about a 2 days it tried to turn over 2 or 3 times and now it seems to be seized. I already put some MMO in the cylinders and started soaking the nuts and bolts in PB blaster for the tear down but how far am I going to go have to go get it cranking again will it have to come out of the Boat? Any and all help is appreciated

[lat 64]

The first thought is the cylinders are locked up with water. But you pulled all the plugs right?.
If you got all the spark plugs out and it still wont turn,then it's probably rust. Taking the head off will get to most of what you need, but some of the guys on this forum have solved very similar problems without taking it off.

Time is running out. Go to the boat often and work things loose.

Rusting so quick makes me think the valves may be stuck closed and are preventing the cam from turning. this in turn prevents all things from turning.
Try to rock it backwards. If you don't have a hand crank, put it in gear and just grab the prop shaft with a strap wrench and gently work it. A little movement is a great thing. Don't get crazy and push too hard. Just back ad forth to nurse it to health. Lots of oil and soaking like you did.

Someone with more experience will post I'm sure,
russ

[Nate M]

Thanks Russ, I'm heading to the boat today to give it another shot of PB and some more MMO in the Cylinders Ill try the rocking back and forth with the hand crank and see if it loosens up.

[Dave Neptune]

Ouch!

Welcome to the forum Nate.
Were you trying to start the motor ~ and it didn't start ~ and now it is stuck?
If so you probably filled the exhaust by cranking and now it is in the cylinders.
What Russ said and if it hasn't sat to long you should be able to bust it loose with staedy rocking of the flywheel with the starter out. Get some oil into the cylinders ~ I recomend a spray for good coverage. You will probabl need to change to oil a couple of times when you get it running again. When/if you get it loose try starting again with the water intake closed.
More info will be needed to go much further. Many an A-4 has been "knocked loose" and run successfully for many years.
Gettin to it quickly is of the utmost importance!!!
Dave Neptune

[CalebD]

Bummer, but likely salvageable

I had similar woes about 7 years ago but our engine survived: http://www.odalisque.us/?p=138
After our cabin flooded from a leaking stuffing box and I discovered water in the engine oil I spoke to Don Moyer on the phone. He recommended doing 3 successive oil changes using a cheap multi-weight oil before putting my usual 30W oil back in. The oil got cleaner with each change.
I suppose I was lucky as our engine still turned over even with water in the oil.
Marvel Mystery Oil is a rust inhibitor. Get some of this in the oil pan and cylinders.
Good luck.

[Al Schober]

Nate,
Not sure if you're trying to turn the engine by hand or by using the starter. If it turns by hand but not on the starter, you may have flooded the starter motor, corroding and siezing the brush holders and springs. Just a thought.

Al

[Nate M]

Hi Dave exactly as you said i was trying to start the motor and now its stuck i tried rocking the fly wheel today with the plugs out but it wouldn't budge either way maybe because i still have starter attached? I unbolted the starter but couldn't figure out how to take it off should it just wiggle loose? as for draining the oil I have never done it on anything other than my car how do i go about doing it on the A4? Sorry for all the questions I'm new to this stuff.

[Laker]

The common method for extracting the oil is sucking it out of the dipstick hole. You need some sort of pump with a tube or adaptor small enough to fit into that little hole. There are rotary/peristoltic(sp?) type pumps which attach to a drill , and any variety of hand pumps - use whichever you can get your hands on most quickly and pump that stuff out of your crankcase , IF , in fact , you have verified that your oil is fouled with water. If it is not fouled , there is no terrible urgency in getting the oil out. Of paramount importance is that you repeatedly lube the bejeebers out of the cylinders with the aforementioned products , and a blast(s) of carb cleaner might help.

You are probably going to wind up pulling the head.

As Lat said , time is your enemy. Be aggressive.

[domenic]

I think you need Don for this one. As to getting water into cylinders when the engine won't start...I start my A4 before I open it to water.
Whatever your problem is, don't lose heart...the guys on the forum will be right there beside you. All will work out okay, and you will love your A4.
Domenic

[ndutton]

as for draining the oil I have never done it on anything other than my car how do i go about doing it on the A4? Sorry for all the questions I'm new to this stuff.

Nate,
You are welcome to borrow my oil extraction setup, I'd be happy to drop it by.

[CalebD]

Oil extractor pumps

Nate,
Look at that! Neil has offered to bring by his oil extraction kit. I'd take him up on that offer as he'd probably have other good ideas for you.
I'd urge you not to just run out and buy any old hand pump for removing the oil from your engine (because it is cheap). What you want in an oil extraction pump or extraction kit is easy and clean, as you will be doing at least 1 oil change per year, more if you motor over 50 - 100 hours per season.
Many people like the vacuum pump models like this: http://www.defender.com/product.jsp?...179&id=1345777
I bought a 12V Jabsco oil extractor for roughly twice the price of the hand pump linked above but at least it is both easy to use and not messy at all.

The drill operated pumps are not as easy to use or clean in operation, IMHO. Maybe I'm just clumsy but it is easy to drip nasty oil everywhere when I used one.

[jpian0923]

Can you be more specific about the water level your engine was submerged in? Can you see an actual water line on the engine itself? If so, we need that info. A picture of the water line would help us diagnose it. Also, the engine is designed to keep oil sealed in...it must be, therefore, good at keeping water out unless significantly submerged.

Also, From the second picture you posted I can see that you have the fly wheel cover off. Is the gear for the starter retracted all the way or is it still meshed with the fly wheel gear? If it is still meshed, that might be why you can't hand crank it. If that's the case you'll have to pull the starter out and mill the groove, with a file, that that gear rides in so that it rides up and down (in and out) along the shaft easily. Clean up any metal shavings inside the starter and fly wheel area, that you may have, from starter gear and fly wheel meshing, they can cause the shaft groove to bind up. Re grease that shaft also.

To pull the starter it should be just two bolts and slide it back/aft. Label and disconnect the wires first. You have to remove alternator first also.

[Dave Neptune]

Quick like a bunny

Nate, do you have a "shop-vac"? If so get it to the boat and suck all the water you can out of the cylinders. Use a small piece of tubing and some duck tape to fabricate something to get in the spark plug holes. As soon as you have as much of the water out as you can get out get some spray oil in the cylinders!!!!
Now remove the (I believe) two bolts that hold the starter in place and slide the starter out of its mounting. Now get a big screw driver and work (rock) the flywheel "BACK AND FORTH" while being careful not to tear up the teeth on the flywheel. Do it carefully and don't rush. As you go back and forth you should be able to get the rings loose as they are what is stuck. Once they are broke loose and the engine can be rotated reinstall the starter. With the ignition OFF or the lead wire off the coil begin cranking the beastie. All sorts of crap is going to come flying out of the plug holes so place a sacrificial towel over the engine while cranking for short intervals so you don't over heat the starter. I sugest mounting a temporary switch to work the starter while doing this.
If you have the oil changed it will be time to try and start her again. You may have a valve or to stuck and can use your thumb on the plug hole while cranking to find them. They can be pushed down carefully with an allen wrench to get them loose. Sometimes if you have 2~3 good cylindeers the beastie will start and shake the rest of the valves loose.
It is important to get the engine to spin ASAP.
I bought my boat with a frozen engine and it took me a couple of days to get it knocked loose(I did have to remove the head) and it is still running well 26 years later!!!!
Do not open the water valve until it is running!!!!
There is hope.

Dave Neptune

[hanleyclifford]

Looking at the picture of the flywheel suggests that you have at least turned the engine 180 degrees since the 4-6 inch immersion event. The rust line seems to suggest this. If so, the water did not reach the level of the cylinders and any water in them is due to cranking with the inlet water on or leaving the inlet valve open. Like Dave suggested I would focus on the starter and the flywheel. The engine is not water tight and the immersion line suggested by that picture is consistent with an oil pan full of water. As noted by others time is of the essence.

[Laker]

Good eye , Hanley. The rust line on the flywheel.