Heading south for the winter

[hanleyclifford]

Paul and Trina, Hi! Sounds like you did run out of fuel or at least it got down low enough to let air into the pickup tube. In effect you may have just lost prime. Best to keep main tank full if possible. Looks like you are making good progress. Are you going all the way to the end of the Keys?

[PT26]

Still troubled

So we started the motor and warmed it up before we pulled anchor. In 30 minutes it stopped working. We assumed that maybe we should try priming again so we hooked the oil change pump to the hose that attached to the carb and we pulled a vacuum and sucked gas through until we no longer saw air bubbles coming down the line.

We started her up and she ran for another 30 minutes.

We've calculated the fuel, we have a 12 gallon tank and we've added 7 gallons since this problem started ( so there was still fuel in the tank)

Then we tried priming again, this time pulling 1.5 qts of fuel through the line followed by testing the fuel pump by bypassing the safety switch... Fuel pump work like a dream. Started her up and 30 minutes later she died again.

The motor sounds fine when it's running until just before it shuts off. Right before it shuts off we hear a few air bubbles through the fuel pump and then the motor races slightly... Then dies.

Any thoughts?

[ndutton]

A few wild guesses Paul:

• Try running with the fuel fill cap open. This will eliminate the tank vent system as the problem.
• Check ALL hose connections from the tank to the fuel pump. You might be drawing air into the system. If there is enough hose length trim off the ends and reconnect.
• I'd pull the in-tank pickup tube and check for a crack or other breach at or above the fuel level.

[ILikeRust]

I was gonna "wild guess" the same thing as Neil - you've got air getting into the fuel line somewhere along the way. Either a crack or corrosion hole in the pickup tube or in the line or a fitting somewhere.

Just a guess....

[edwardc]

I'm with Neil's third bullet: Check the pickup for an air leak above the fuel level.

[hanleyclifford]

Paul, When the engine shuts down it is important to check the fuel bowl right away to confirm that fuel is the issue. If you can somehow cobble a gauge into the line just before the carb that would be helpful.

[PT26]

We tried leaving the cap open, Trina thought the same thing about the pulling of a vacuum.

We found a fuel pump but before we dingy in we'll check the pickup tube in case that's the problem

Great guess, thanks for the help, we'll keep you posted.

For now we're under sail heading toward the closest anchorage to the parts store.

[hanleyclifford]

Paul, You should also consider the possibility of a small piece of crud restricting the needle and seat inlet valve such that the bowl is slowly drained over a 30 minute period from (full) start up. While you are at the parts store pick up a fuel pressure gauge.

[PT26]

Thanks Hanley
Good idea, I found a good spot for parts and we are sailing there now.
ETA... 3 miles
They even have a fuel pump so I am going to pick one up just in case.

[hanleyclifford]

Hard to see how you could get any closer to that NAPA (unless you were amphibious) What's the depth there?

[PT26]

Pulling into Napa

This is a drive through, right? LOL
Hanley the water is so clear I had Trina on the bow to tell me what she could see.
Her reply was... How the heck do I know, there is no depth perception the water is to clear... So we just eased up in here, depth sounding until I found a six foot area. We were a little hesitant because we went over a few five foot spots
You know your in clean water when you can see you anchor and know it set!
Now we are going to start checking the tank etc... I will post what we find.

[Sony2000]

No one has spoken of a fuel/water separator, or fuel filter, needing a change!

[PT26]

Solved

To check the pickup line we used the oil change pump and attached it directly to the line coming from the tank. Our assumption being that if there is a hole in the pickup line we'd see air bubbles in the line as we pulled fuel from the tank. No air bubbles were seen.

To check the possibility of an air leak in the fittings we shut the valve at the tank and pulled a vacuum from the line that connects to the carb. The basis of this test being that if there was an air leak in a line or fitting we'd loose the vacuum. The vacuum held.

So with nothing to lose I sent Paul in to get a new fuel pump. I figured that maybe the tapping we were hearing wasn't air bubbles going thought the pump but maybe it was the pump failing to pull enough fuel from the tank.

I installed the new fuel pump made sure all connection were tight and then tested everything by, once again bypassing the safety switch so when the key came on the fuel pump would run without starting the motor. After everything was given the safety tested and leak free approval, I hooked the safety switch back up an lo and behold she fired right up and has been running for an hour.

So after changing all the filters (multiple times) testing the tank and lines, priming, and all the other random things, it seems that the fuel pump wasn't working like it should have been.

For future reference, we're anchored in Buttonwood Sound at ICW mile 1143 near Snook's restaurant in 6.5 ft of water and there's an Advanced Auto and a Napa across the street just to the South... And they take used oil.

Thank you guys all for your help!
--Trina

[Marian Claire]

Been on the MC for a few days so missed your posts. Good job with the fuel pump. If you take the fuel pump base off see if the small ball is stuck. I believe Ed has done this and I unjambed/fixed my pump this way. The louder sound my pump made when jambed is definitely different than the regular ticking of the pump.
Can you still use the dingy landing at the end of the street just north of Snooks?
Dan S/V Marian Claire

[hanleyclifford]

Job well done

Paul and Trina, Excellent diagnostic procedure! I guess what we learn from this is that a ticking, apparently functional, fuel pump ain't necessarily for real. It may not be actually maintaining fuel pressure at the carb.