New Moyer Block exchange and FWC

[Johnman135]

After years of screwing around with my original A4 ( 1977 Tartan 30 ) I'm seriously considering purchasing a new block exchange engine from Moyer. More time boating, less time messing with my old A4 is the thought.
The question:
Based on some stuff I've seen on this forum, FWC installation on a Tartan 30 seems like a real challenge. Is is worth bothering with if I have a brand new block?
Seems I'll be long gone before block corrosion would ever be an issue....
Thanks!

[edwardc]

Ah, balancing the age-old question of time vs money. At this point in my life, I value my time very highly.

In making your decision, keep in mind that avoiding salt-water corrosion of the block is only one of the benefits of FWC. There is:

1. Better fuel efficiency due to operating at a higher temp
2. Lack of cooling system clogging with organic crud buildup (no more acid flushing)
3. Block automatically winterized, easy winterizing of raw water circuit (no fussing with thermostat)

When I did a swap-out for a Moyer short block rebuild 5 years ago, I didn't hesitate to convert to FWC. I think it's worth the effort & cost.

[sastanley]

+1 what Ed says..it isn't really about your age, but the quality of your time with the new motor..In the 70's no one thought FWC was a necessity.

It is now 40 years later, but we've learned the benefits Ed has mentioned. Those old air cooled VW engines ran for a long time, but even my wife's Audi has antifreeze in it now.

Also, keep in mind that the HX and associated hardware can be mounted away from the motor, off in a settee or something similar. I've been really happy with the electric Johnson CM-30 pump I am using to circulate the antifreeze..and they've dropped in price too.

[Al Schober]

I've installed the Moyer FW kit in my Tartan 30. Didn't realize it was supposed to be hard - I just did it. The only real 'problem' that I ran into was the pump for the coolant - I originally used the old Oberdorfer which had a slight leak. Losing a little raw water to the bilge was not a biggie, but losing coolant became unacceptable. Had to upgrade to the Moyer ball bearing pump.
Installation of the heat exchanger is MUCH easier with the mast out. I located the heat exchanger in the bulkhead aft of the head. The fill connection is accessible through the little door under the aft counter.
I'd be happy to try and answer your questions about the installation. Not sure if I have any photos on file, but I can take some for you (when the weather warms up a bit). Where are you located?

[lat 64]

Rust never sleeps

You are putting five grand into the ol girl,

what's a few more boat bucks?

Above is a rhetorical question

Welcome,

Russ

[hanleyclifford]

If you ever go to sell the boat, FWC means the engine is good. RWC means the engine is fully discounted.

[Vermonstah]

"RWC is fully discounted"

If you ever go to sell the boat, FWC means the engine is good. RWC means the engine is fully discounted.

I guess that means I should move FWC up higher on my list of upgrades.

My engine has supposedly not seen salt water in 30+ years, but did start out in the Atlantic for its first 10+ years.

And I have been flushing and acid flushing religiously for the past 3 years since I have owned her.

Should I still be moving FWC up in the prioritized queue, say after I install EI?

[Johnman135]

Thanks for the input everyone - the FWC install is a no-brainer is the consensus. The issue I have on install seems to be the height of the HX relative to the engine and fitting under the engine cover. Apparently I could put a "head tank" elsewhere and mount the HX lower then the engine provided the head tank is higher. True? Is a head tank nothing but a plastic overflow tank?

Al - seems were neighbors - sent you a private message.

[hanleyclifford]

I guess that means I should move FWC up higher on my list of upgrades.

My engine has supposedly not seen salt water in 30+ years, but did start out in the Atlantic for its first 10+ years.

And I have been flushing and acid flushing religiously for the past 3 years since I have owned her.

Should I still be moving FWC up in the prioritized queue, say after I install EI?

Acid flushing a block actually shortens it's life having much the same effect on the cylinders as does two part Snappy Teak Nu on wood.

[hanleyclifford]

Thanks for the input everyone - the FWC install is a no-brainer is the consensus. The issue I have on install seems to be the height of the HX relative to the engine and fitting under the engine cover. Apparently I could put a "head tank" elsewhere and mount the HX lower then the engine provided the head tank is higher. True? Is a head tank nothing but a plastic overflow tank?

Al - seems were neighbors - sent you a private message.

No. The header tank is part of the pressurized system (very low pressure). The over flow tank is not. Wherever the fill cap (of the pressurized system) is located it should be the highest point in the system; this will save you untold grief whenever you have to fill.

[zellerj]

Depends on lake chemistry

I would ask around your marina about how corrosive your lake is. Depends on pH, temperature, salt content etc. Very pure water, such as deionized water, is pretty corrosive, while water that contains carbonates and bicarbonates, but low concentrations of chlorides, is pretty well non corrosive.

Your marina dock mates may give you advice on this.

My atomic 4 is a 1982 that has only been in the Great Lakes and I when I took the side plate off last year to fix a cooling problem, the amount of corrosion appeared minimal. If I sailed in salt water I would definitely convert to an antifreeze system.

Best
Jim

[BunnyPlanet169]

No. The header tank is part of the pressurized system (very low pressure). The over flow tank is not. Wherever the fill cap (of the pressurized system) is located it should be the highest point in the system; this will save you untold grief whenever you have to fill.

This is of interest to me this spring, as I will be going FWC if the snow ever melts.

I understand the need for an expansion/recovery tank in pressurized automotive systems, but wonder if having a physically high, partially filled, vented fill tank is enough for an unpressurized A4 application. Make sure the AF loop is burped of air, and call it a day.

Thoughts from those with installations?

[hanleyclifford]

This is of interest to me this spring, as I will be going FWC if the snow ever melts.

I understand the need for an expansion/recovery tank in pressurized automotive systems, but wonder if having a physically high, partially filled, vented fill tank is enough for an unpressurized A4 application. Make sure the AF loop is burped of air, and call it a day.

Thoughts from those with installations?

I have tried running a no pressure system with only a recovery tank. It will work under light duty, but when it gets ugly and you're running hard against the tide the system will overheat and expel antifreeze into the recovery tank - a lot of antifreeze. Minimal pressure will hold the system tight; as little as 3 or 4 psi will work. I fixed mine by cutting the spring on the pressure cap until I got what I wanted.