Facet Pump Dead?

[Al Schober]

Engine started like a champ today - one turn and off it went. Big smile from the Admiral. Engine shortly died, and stayed dead - no fuel. Frown from the Admiral..
Preliminary diagnosis is the Facet fuel pump, but I'm not yet convinced (ie: to the point of buying a new one). Anyone have any diagnostic steps to take with a Facet pump? Verify dead? Restore to life?? Pump is only a year or two old - why would it suddenly die?
Tomorrow (time permitting) I plan on removing the 12V solenoid shutoff valve and replacing with a manual ball valve, and replacing the S3240 fuel filter element with new. Also taking along a manual pump to give the system a good prime after reassembly. I'll probably pull a suction on the hose that connects to the carb, pulling fuel over the syphon, through the new filter, through the fuel pump, and right to the carb. Pump then (if good) should maintain pressure.

[roadnsky]

Preliminary diagnosis is the Facet fuel pump, but I'm not yet convinced (ie: to the point of buying a new one). Anyone have any diagnostic steps to take with a Facet pump? Verify dead? Restore to life??

Al-
Was the pump "Pumping"? (making a clicking sound)
Did you check by jumping across the OPSS?
Assuming you don't have a Fuel Pressure Gauge inline, then removing a hose to verify fuel pumping would tell you for sure.

...I plan on removing the 12V solenoid shutoff valve and replacing with a manual ball valve...

Pump is only a year or two old - why would it suddenly die?

I'd be more suspicious of that shutoff valve?

[Al Schober]

Agree about the solenoid valve. Will replace with a manual ball valve as a first step.
Didn't notice the pump clicking. But then I didn't have my hearing aids so who knows??
Current plan (after installing the ball valve & new filter) is to pull fuel through with a manual pump as far as the carb inlet, then connect to the carb (which has a gauge) and go from there.

[Crazer]

Does the pump have its own fuse? Not that I would know anything about that...

[Al Schober]

Yes, the pump has it's own 5 amp fuse - first thing I checked. Fuse looks good and 12V to the hot side of the OPSS. As OP came up, also had voltage to the fuel pump, but only about 10V? 2V drop in the switch - perhaps too much draw to the fuel pump or the solenoid valve? Don't know the normal drop across the OPSS.. Anyway, the draw to the solenoid valve will be gone - see what happens.

[hanleyclifford]

Yes, the pump has it's own 5 amp fuse - first thing I checked. Fuse looks good and 12V to the hot side of the OPSS. As OP came up, also had voltage to the fuel pump, but only about 10V? 2V drop in the switch - perhaps too much draw to the fuel pump or the solenoid valve? Don't know the normal drop across the OPSS.. Anyway, the draw to the solenoid valve will be gone - see what happens.

That voltage drop could be the problem. I lose less than a volt thru an OPSS. That 10.5 volts over time could fry a pump. What else is on the circuit with the pump? Are you running the pump from coil+? A lot of factors could be involved here. I like to keep sensitive stuff on dedicated circuits; so I have both ignition and fuel pump on separate OPSS.

[ndutton]

Voltage drop across the OPSS?

[hanleyclifford]

Voltage drop across the OPSS?

Yet to be determined. There could also be resistance at the two terminals or for that matter any where in the circuit. Definitely should not be losing 2 volts across that switch.

[ndutton]

Shouldn't be losing ANY volts through the switch. It's a mechanical switch, not a dimmer.

Not suggesting that's the reason for the shutdown but it's not right. May as well address it while you're at it.

[JOHN COOKSON]

Al:
This is a long shot but anyway: If there is a wire co joined with the wire to the fuel pump that goes to the R terminal of the solenoid let it loose at the starter motor, pull it around the engine and inspect it.

TRUE GRIT

[hanleyclifford]

Shouldn't be losing ANY volts through the switch. It's a mechanical switch, not a dimmer.

Not suggesting that's the reason for the shutdown but it's not right. May as well address it while you're at it.

We are not talking about a top quality industrial switch such as this one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gC2Hx7n7KY4 The OPSS we get from NAPA or other boutique are more like the early ones that could leak and affect the electrical connection.

[ndutton]

The OPSS we get from NAPA or other boutique are more like the early ones that could leak and affect the electrical connection.

Well, I'm not privy do a difference between early ones vs. later ones but no matter. If it's imparting a voltage loss when it shouldn't it's a candidate for replacement on any boat maintained to a high standard.

What exactly are these differences between early ones and others?

[hanleyclifford]

Well, I'm not privy do a difference between early ones vs. later ones but no matter. If it's imparting a voltage loss when it shouldn't it's a candidate for replacement on any boat maintained to a high standard.

What exactly are these differences between early ones and others?

I couldn't find a cross sectional view of the cheap type OPSS but my suspicion is that they have a moving seal, or none at all, and at the prices I've seen probably no diaphragm. Since the subject has come up I'll see if I have one downstairs and I'll break it up for a look see. I agree that such a component should have little resistance, but can readily understand how a slow deterioration of connection could sneak up on an installation until the point of failure of itself or another component.

[ndutton]

. . . . but can readily understand how a slow deterioration of connection could sneak up on an installation until the point of failure of itself or another component.

Hence the measured voltage loss indicates replacement.

[hanleyclifford]

Hence the measured voltage loss indicates replacement.

It would seem so. What are your thoughts on running a Facet at 10 volts for any period of time? Still looking for an OPSS but I'm afraid they're all on the boat.