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  #1   IP: 24.45.76.27
Old 07-05-2011, 11:48 PM
JOLLYBOAT JOLLYBOAT is offline
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water in engine

Hello All,
I have a problem that maybe some of you can help me with. I am getting water in my cylinders and I cannot figure out what the cause is. About two weeks ago I discovered water in the #4 cylinder and I assumed it was from a poor exhaust design and so I changed the exhaust, as well as removed the head and manifold, removed the valves, cleaned and installed new valve springs. The motor was running great and then on the 3rd, I discovered water in the #3 & #4 cylinders. I shut the raw water off and ran the engine with just the fresh water cooling loop and water started spraying out of the #3 and #4 cylinders when I took the plugs out. I know that this is either from my head gasket (which was just installed) a cracked or holed manifold, head or block. I have now taken the head and manifold off the engine again and the head gaskets were in horrible condition and did not come off in one piece. I did over the heat the engine when I first reassemble it as I forgot to top off the fresh water expansion tank, so I guess it is possible that I "burned" the new head gaskets. It took longer to clean what was left of the head gaskets off of the head and top of the block than it did to take the engine apart. I cannot see anything that would indicate a problem with the head or block and they are now very clean. I brought the manifold home and acid washed it and have tried to blow into to it and listen for a leak but I cannot get it to leak! It seems fine!!! So now I do not know what to do. Should I put it all back together again just to discover that I am again filling my engine with water but still do not know where it is coming from. FYI, I know about not starting the engine with the raw water on and I even turn the raw water off before shutting the engine down to evacuate the exhaust system. The engine starts instantly, even with water in the #3 & #4.
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  #2   IP: 148.170.241.1
Old 07-06-2011, 09:38 AM
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ILikeRust ILikeRust is offline
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Sounds to me like you have ID'd the problem - sounds like shot head gaskets.

As you have stated, the only other option is the one we all do not want to know about: a crack in the block or cylinder wall. Let's hope it's just the head gaskets.
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  #3   IP: 128.183.140.38
Old 07-06-2011, 11:53 AM
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edwardc edwardc is online now
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This sounds a lot like what happened to my engine last year, as chronicled in
http://www.moyermarine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4312

To give you the quick Cliff-Notes version, I went through the same thought train, and after many red-herrings finally discovered that there was a crack in the block. It was not visible, but was in one of the valve "chambers" directly beneath the valve. My debugging flaw was not doing a pressure test of the block & head's cooling jacket early in the troubleshooting process. This is an easy test, but it needs to be done with the head on. Don't skip it like I did.

I also got faked-out by the blown head gasket. Turns out that this was a symptom, not a cause. Cranking and running the engine with water in the #3 & #4 blew out the gasket, as water is not compressible.

Good luck in your troubleshooting. Keep us posted!
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  #4   IP: 74.89.239.147
Old 07-06-2011, 09:28 PM
JOLLYBOAT JOLLYBOAT is offline
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Thanks for the input Bill & Ed. From the very beginning I must admit that Don suggested that I perform the "simple" pressure test. Given the difficulty of changing the valve springs with engine in the boat, which, I just completed two weeks ago, to perform a pressure test would seem like an easy thing to do. Ed, before I go further I will pressure test the motor after I get it back together. I ordered the gaskets that I need to re-assemble the motor this morning so will keep the forum posted with my findings.
Obviously, my hope is that I made a mistake in my first job, which I would much rather admit than any other outcome.

Last edited by JOLLYBOAT; 07-06-2011 at 09:30 PM.
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  #5   IP: 173.166.26.241
Old 07-06-2011, 11:31 PM
hanleyclifford hanleyclifford is offline
 
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Before re-assembling the engine test the manifold cooling passages for pressure so as to eliminate it as a suspect. Should hold 20 psi.
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  #6   IP: 69.126.50.105
Old 07-09-2011, 02:50 AM
JOLLYBOAT JOLLYBOAT is offline
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how is that done? I have an old style manifold so short of tapping and plugging the cross-over port I am not exactly sure how to test the old style manifold. I have the manifold at home and have acid washed it and inspected it closely as well as tried to detect an air leak with a "lung pressure test" should there be a hole of crack large enough for that small amount of pressure to blow through - but alas it held with lung pressure.
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  #7   IP: 107.0.6.244
Old 07-09-2011, 10:18 AM
hanleyclifford hanleyclifford is offline
 
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The only way I know to test with the early style is to tap the hole with 1/2" NPT and plug it. Then use a schraeder valve at the other end to pressurize. The problem with testing on the engine is that you cannot isolate the leak if you find one. The breach will be internal in the manifold, out of sight.
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