Engine Compartment Fire Extinquishing System

[ArtJ]

Just located yet another part no information

FR-42081260


The hard insulation may possibly be made of compacted silicon ?

[ArtJ]

just goggled this link http://www.industrialinsulation.com/...insulation.htm


Looks to be the same, or similar to the hard insulation material

[romantic comedy]

Bill, I have seen at least 10 different Tartan 34 exhausts. I cant say what the exact original insulation was, but what I have seen has not been adequate. They were all pretty much the same as mine (without the copper wrap).

My opinion is that the original design was inadequate and dangerous.

For Jack, a standpipe would help, but not cure this design problem. Jack's boat looks extremely dangerous as opposed to a little dangerous, as it is with most Tartan 34s.

I am surprised that I have never heard of one going up in flames!! They get very hot!!

Again, the best fix is a water jacked pipe leading to the stand pipe.

The blower system is also inadequate from the original design. Also any large amount of pipe insulation decreases air flow. Captains usually keep the blower on during engine use. This helps to cool the pipe also. Of course this was not part of the design, since blowers are not for continuous use.

I believe that many Tartan 34s have squeaked by from having a fire.

[ndutton]

In the design of your water jacketed hot pipe consider a way to deal with the inevitable salt crystal buildup within. Somewhere around 160°F is the point salt precipitates out of sea water in crystalline form.

[romantic comedy]

Good question Neil. how do the other water jacketed systems deal with the salt issue?

[ndutton]

They don't. Yanmar specifies replacement of their water jacketed mixing elbow every 500 hours. I believe salt crystals are only part of the reason, probably anticipated corrosion is involved too. I'll tell you this: I've dealt with a friend's overheating Yanmar with an elbow that looked like a geode inside. What a mess.

This suggestion adds considerable complexity but following Hanley's example you might think about running coolant through the jacket and then to a dedicated heat exchanger. It would require another raw water pump, maybe electric?

How you Tartan guys deal with it is up to you, I just didn't want you to get a big surprise later especially with a custom fabrication. That's way different than bolting up a replacement elbow.

[hanleyclifford]

The problem with making a jacketed section out of black iron is the huge dimensional change which exacerbates the problem of fitting. Can some one explain to me why it is not expedient to simply resize the cabinetry to get a safe clearance?

[romantic comedy]

Hanley, anything can be done. The cabinetry can be changed to some extent. T

I think there are different ways to do it. One just has to pick which one.

I think some large volume of air flow might be best for a stock system. It would require the least amount of modification, from what I would guess. I am still thinking about my air flow. I will probably just use an inline blower.

my crazy idea with the copper is still a possibility. I might work on it this summer, since it is not sailing season.

I thought there were a lot of boats with water jacketed systems? How are they made. I see guys having trouble after 40 years. Would not the same thing work on the Tartan?

[ArtJ]

The Tom Stevens solution of using the Calcium Silicate worked well for
around 15 years with exhaust highly heat insulated, and simple to implement. It had nothing
to do with his fire which was due to a electrical issue with a gauge
and leaking water.

[romantic comedy]

Art, did he put a water lift in? (tom)

[ArtJ]

Yes he did, but that is a different issue. I am not sure of the timing, I think
he used the standpipe for a while first. As I mentioned, i did install
the hard Calcium Silicate initially, but removed it because it shed powder.
Tom put the fiberglass wrap over and never had any shedding. I switched
to the Exhaust wrap, which has worked, but it would have been better
had I followed Tom's lead. I cut away the bottom of the cabinet which
was closest to the 90 degree elbow, added some additional wrap and
some stove pipe tin as shielding. It has also worked, but I may revert
to the hard stuff as it provides better protection, relatively easy to
install and lasts forever.

I definitely like the standpipe and the protection it provides for deep installed engines and would never remove it.


Best Regards

Art

[Jwixted]

Caveat Emptor

All -

Just a final note on this issue, in case anyone else ever is a dumb as I am.

So, I paid for the excellent standpipe muffler from Don. Yay Don!!! You are awesome.

So my boat had broken down about an hour plus from home, electrical issue, appeared to be alternator, and as it was far away I had the local yard install a new alternator - and figured while they were at it, they could install the standpipe too. Less down time, more sailing time, right?

Wrong.

That was over a month ago. Shortly after this, I overheated,. I blamed myself. And I got a lot of water in the oil. Oh crap. Head gasket? Manifold? Water Jacket? Head? NOPE.

Don bailed me out - they had installed the standpipe BACKWARDS.

EXHAUST IN - bottom. COMBINED EXHAUST and WATER - out the side. It was such a neat job and done by professions (who charged me $800, incidentally, thats what happens when you break down...) it took me a good long while to clue in to the obvious mistake staring me in the face.


Well I know a hell of a lot about Atomic 4s now. Hoping to get my $800 bucks back too.

[ndutton]

Larry Pardey made a comment decades ago: (paraphrased) There should be nothing on board you cannot repair yourself. There are no repairmen at sea.

I took this to heart when I read it, made complete sense. Larry's application of his mantra was to do without things he could not or preferred not to deal with. No engine was the glaring example but he also did without electricity favoring kerosene navigation and cabin lighting, did without running water and did without a marine head favoring a cedar bucket. Although I follow the mantra the best I can, I'm not as spartan as Larry.

This very pricey and dead wrong yard repair further supports my application of the mantra: No one touches my boat except for me or under my direct supervision, period.

The yard I use accommodates owners doing their own work, a minimum requirement for me. The lift operator and I have a detailed discussion including an underbody profile drawing before the boat is lifted. The only task the yard is contracted to perform is rolling on bottom paint and I keep an eye on that too. OCD? You betcha.

It's too bad yards have the reputation they do especially considering their labor rates. For expert rates I expect expert work and that seems to be the missing connection. Good thing I enjoy the work.

Jack, good on ya for getting to the bottom of it, sorry for the lost time and best of luck getting a refund.

[romantic comedy]

I am a cursed person. I have to do everything myself. The very few times that I had someone do work for me were bad. I honestly dont know how people have others work on their house, boat, plane, camper, motorcycle, or bicycle.

It is a curse though.

[joe_db]

If I want to spend the cash, we do have excellent yards in my area that can do a superb job at about anything*. They cost a LOT. I almost never use their services, but I will give a shout-out to Smith's Marina on the Severn that replaced by shaft, replaced my cutless bearing, and got my prop reconditioned. All was one schedule, on budget, and done right the first time.

* I say about anything instead of anything because it is, IMHO, very hard to find a decent A4 mechanic. That is the one weakness of the A4, very few shops know them, can do a good job on them, or even want to see them. In my area, outside of Vosbury's, buy a diesel is about all the help you can get
Unless of course you can find Don Moyer, he is across the river from me