water in the oil

[joseph miller]

In July I changed the water lift exhaust on my A-4.It ran well for 6-8 weeks but now i have water in the oil. The engine was installed in the winter of 99-00 by the last owner(at Moyer Marine) and i bought the boat(tartan 27)in 08. is the most likely point of water entry the head,head gasket or manifold,manifold gasket.
thanks Joe Miller

[Dave Neptune]

water argh!

Joe, water can get in a couple of ways and the most common is the exhaust filling with water and the water running into the exhaust manifold and to the crankcase via an open exhaust valve.
This can happen a few ways but the two most common are long cranking periods to start which fills the exhaust but is not forced out by the engines exhaust. the other is the failure of the syphon break or anti-syphon valve sticking.

Get the water out and get the beastie running to get the rest out asap.

You should have a minimal amount of work the earlier you get it out and get the beastie warmed enough to get the biot out you can't pump out then change that oil too.

Dave Neptune

[hanleyclifford]

We could also ask the question, did you replace the waterlift with the same unit or did you change to a different one? Perhaps the new one is having trouble "batching" out the water? If it took 6-8 weeks for you to notice, then the problem could be a constant but low volume leak that does not stop the engine. It would take a while for water to get by rings or guides and the engine might be able to deal with it in the short term. Another ugly but unlikely scenario (but one that should be eliminated) would be the failure of both seals at the water pump coupled with a blockage of the drain.

[Scott.Reed]

Water in crankcase (cont'd)

I too discovered water in my crankcase when I drained out my oil. Read through the discussions, addressing all the usual suspects.

I'm most alarmed by Don Moyer's earlier post that talks about possible failure modes, specifically the 1/4" plug between the valves and water jacket.

He said "2) Remove the valve cover to inspect for water entering into the valve chamber through a hole in the very center of the water jacket behind the valve springs. In some of the later model engines (usually with serial numbers over 194,000), Universal used a 1/4" pipe plug to close a hole in that area. The problem is that they used plain steel plugs which have a strong potential to fail after the 25 or so years since they were installed."

1. Has anyone encountered this failure, how difficult was it to access the area and fix, and lastly, how could Universal be so poorly designed in the first place?

2. My Atomic 4 is a 1976 model. The serial number is 201309, the model number is 5101. Does anyone know how this maps to another engine naming convention, models UJ, UJS, UJR, UJSR, UJVD.

3. I'd like to buy an engine manual that corresponds to my engine, serial number is 201309, the model number is 5101. Does anyone know where I can get that, hopefully in downloadable PDF format

4. Lastly, I've heard that the Atomic 4 has at least the potential of having a oil drain outlet tapped into the side of the pan. Has anyone done this, if so, any pictures. I'm frustrated that draining the oil via the dip stick tube is so frustrating and incomplete.

Many thanks,

Scott Reed

[Scott.Reed]

Wiki cites: Links to full Atomic 4 technical manual and owner's guide in .pdf format

Wikipedia on the "Universal Atomic 4" page cites a link to full Atomic 4 technical manual and owner's guide in .pdf format from Engines1.com.

The exact URL is: http://knowledgebase.engines1.com/de...30&Lang=1&SID=

When I try to go to this link, nada, so it may be old, renamed or dead.

My question: does anyone have this technical manual and/or owner's guide in .pdf format?

If, so could you please please please email the .pdf(s) to scott.reed@att.net. I've got a gimpy A4, am trying to sell this, my second boat and have a serious prospect. I need to move quickly before season passes.

Many thanks in advance,

Scott Reed

[hanleyclifford]

I believe I have all the factory manuals and parts list available but none of them is as valuable as the Moyer Marine Service and Overhaul Manual available at the on line catalogue at this site.

[sastanley]

Hello Scott,
Three comments: (EDIT = 4)

1. Welcome to the forum! This IS the resource for Atomic 4's.

2. I'd highly recommend that you remove your direct e-mail link from this site...automated search bots frequent it (great for when we google search for stuff about Atomic 4's and Moyer is at the top of the list) bad for people that add e-mail links in their posts..The simplified reason from my understanding is because those search bots (& other search/spam bots) give away/pick up e-mail addresses and then spam e-mail to them.

3. I second Hanley's recommendation to buy the Moyer Manual...it is the most comprehensive available. I was lucky..mine was already on board when I bought my boat.

4. I think you'll have a much better chance of selling the boat after spending a couple hundred bucks on improving the motor which will add value well beyond what you put into it. It would sell much quicker (& for more $$) with info like; "Strong, recently tuned Atomic 4 using advice from Moyer Marine", as opposed to; "gimpy Atomic 4...trying to sell before it dies".

My $0.02...don't take it personally. I do wish you luck.

[Scott.Reed]

hanleyclifford, thanks

I believe I have all the factory manuals and parts list available but none of them is as valuable as the Moyer Marine Service and Overhaul Manual available at the on line catalogue at this site.

hanleyclifford, thanks for getting back to me. I'm sure the Moyer docs are great but I'm looking for the PDFs (if they exist) for expediencies sake. I have 3 day window before the weekend, can't get the stuff from Moyer in time. If you have these docs in electronic form could you please email them to me at scott.reed@att.net

[Scott.Reed]

sastanley, thanks for your reply

sastanley, thanks for your reply. my response in your text below.

Hello Scott,
Three comments: (EDIT = 4)

1. Welcome to the forum! This IS the resource for Atomic 4's.

Thanks. I wish I knew of your existence before, but as is often the case, when there are no problems, who's looking for solutions

2. I'd highly recommend that you remove your direct e-mail link from this site...automated search bots frequent it (great for when we google search for stuff about Atomic 4's and Moyer is at the top of the list) bad for people that add e-mail links in their posts..The simplified reason from my understanding is because those search bots (& other search/spam bots) give away/pick up e-mail addresses and then spam e-mail to them.

I didn't know I had done that. I'll check in my profile page.



3. I second Hanley's recommendation to buy the Moyer Manual...it is the most comprehensive available. I was lucky..mine was already on board when I bought my boat.

I'm sure it's great, but I haven't the time to order it and have it delivered in time. I've got three days to fix A4. So I was hoping to get electronic PDFs which could be emailed to me, even though not as good as MM.


4. I think you'll have a much better chance of selling the boat after spending a couple hundred bucks on improving the motor which will add value well beyond what you put into it. It would sell much quicker (& for more $$) with info like; "Strong, recently tuned Atomic 4 using advice from Moyer Marine", as opposed to; "gimpy Atomic 4...trying to sell before it dies".

Great idea

My $0.02...don't take it personally. I do wish you luck.

[sastanley]

Scott, I think Hanley sleeps with his Moyer Manual...he pulls references to the book out of thin air!

I keep mine on the boat, & surely don't have it memorized, but I am sure whatever your issues are, have likely happened already & may be documented on the forum.

I don't know you or the seller, but I think he'd be happy to know that you are putting some effort into making the engine more reliable for a possible sale. Point him in the direction of this forum, and/or work with the folks here to help get the motor running better. I would also classify my engine as "anemic" when I bought the boat, and one winter's worth of pulling parts & cleaning and de-gunking (without a major overhaul) while the boat was sleeping went a LONG way in improving performance.

Although I've never used it, there is also a "technical support" number on the Moyer home page...it may prove useful to you as well.

To answer your original question about the valve cover/water intrusion...I recall from a "valve adjustment" thread that Don said it was OK to run the motor for a short period of time with the valve cover off...the discussion involved whether large amounts of oil would be spraying around with the cover missing and the answer was no..this should allow you to inspect as per your notes. The valve cover plate is on the carb side of the block, behind the carb and/or fuel pump & is attached with two studs. I do not know if you can get it off without removing the carb & pump first...access to the studs may be restricted with those items in place?? With good visual access & a good strong light you may be able to see the plug?? I am sure someone here has a pic of what you are looking for. I adjusted my valves this past spring, but I did not inspect closely enough to look for the plug in question.

check out this thread for some valve chamber pics - http://www.moyermarine.com/forums/sh...t=valve&page=2

[ArtJ]

The technical support number is indeed very very useful. It is a direct line
to speak with Don Moyer himself. When the answer can't wait or isn't
readily apparent Don is a great source of knowledge and help to all who
ask. He will talk you thru your problem.

Regards

Art

[joseph miller]

water in oil

I think I have figured out the problem with regards the water in the oil .
I have a fresh water cooled a4 and the discharge for the raw water coolant for the fresh water heat exchanger is to high in the water lift and letting some water back in to the engine. I could not have not have figured this out without the great help and advice give by Ken at Moyer Marine. thanks for everyones advice,i will keep you posted as to my progress. joe miller

[roadnsky]

hanleyclifford, thanks for getting back to me. I'm sure the Moyer docs are great but I'm looking for the PDFs (if they exist) for expediencies sake. I have 3 day window before the weekend, can't get the stuff from Moyer in time. If you have these docs in electronic form could you please email them to me

Scott-
I just read your post. Probably too late for your timeline, but here are the PDF's I think you were seeking...

If you still have the boat though, take Hanley and Shawn's advice.
Get the MMI bible and put some fix it TLC into your A4.
It'll pay you back many times over...