Elmer SO Lost

[Trumplestiltskin]

6 Days and counting....

Ok, so I did not see any of these posts before I left this morning. I went to West Marine in Hampton and spent 60 bux on a 6 gal fuel tank, new hoses, and an inline filter. Rather than mess with the old tank and old fuel I removed the old intake hose to the fuel pump and capped it. I also saw a drain plug under the carb so I emptied it of the year old fuel as well. I DID remember to replace the plug. I then ran the new hose (5/16?) from the new tank to the fuel pump. After 3 hours of trying (used a little spray sorry!) I started reading the A-4 77 issue manual and discovered the idle screw adjuster thing so I played with that a bit and.....BOO-YA! I let her run for about 20 to 30 min slowly throttling up and back. Ok, so now she'll crank with one key turn and will run at idle decently. When I throttle up, it doesn't exactly sputter but you can tell that the power isn't there for where the throttle is in relation to idle position. Also, a quick throttle forward will seize her. Main jet dirty perhaps? I am leery of taking anything off or apart in case that destroys the good juju (besides my lack of skill/sense) But I am getting with a guy who is a whiz with auto 4 cyls tomorrow and I'm thinking maybe 3 filters and 12 qt flush? I also tried to survey the engine while it was running and aside from what seemed to me an overall overvibration I noticed that there was water/gunk being pushed out of a hole near the prop shaft. this hole MIGHT be a bolt hole but I am unsure. I will try to get pics asap so you salts can see what I am talking about, and in the meantime will try very hard not to blow up my new boat. Is a gate valve a longish handle type thing coated with yellow rubber? Would the open position be parallel or perpendicular to hose lines? I will try to get pics soon, and thanks for all the tips/advice/wisdom/common sense.

[rigspelt]

Good on you, that's progress.

Throughull valves are open when the handle is parallel to the hose.

Looking forward to a photo of that hole where you saw water/gunk coming out. Until Don's manual arrives, you can find some A4 images with major part names: google "atomic 4 engine". The "front" is the end with the flywheel on it, and the "back" has the transmission/prop shaft coupling. In a direct drive setup, the flywheel will be facing the bow.

[CalebD]

<snip>.....BOO-YA! I let her run for about 20 to 30 min slowly throttling up and back. Ok, so now she'll crank with one key turn and will run at idle decently.
<snip>
I also tried to survey the engine while it was running and aside from what seemed to me an overall vibration I noticed that there was water/gunk being pushed out of a hole near the prop shaft. this hole MIGHT be a bolt hole but I am unsure. I will try to get pics asap so you salts can see what I am talking about...
<snip>

Well that is progress. At least you have proved that your old A4 is not nearly down for the count.
One thing worries me a bit though. You mention the 'gunk/water coming out a hole near the shaft'. This should be the exhaust pipe where spent exhaust gases and water come out. When you ran the engine for 20+ minutes I hope there was some cooling water circulating through the engine? I forget if you are in the water or on land. It is highly likely that you may need a new water pump impeller if you ran the pump dry for 20+ minutes.
As for the vibrating, engines do that and some vibration is normal. Excessive vibration could be loose engine mounts causing poor shaft alignment. Just more crap to worry about.

[roadnsky]

Is a gate valve a longish handle type thing coated with yellow rubber? Would the open position be parallel or perpendicular to hose lines? I will try to get pics soon, and thanks for all the tips/advice/wisdom/common sense.

Here are pics of 2 valves...
1st is a GATE VALVE (Garden Hose Bib Handle)
2nd is a BALL VALVE (Groco White Handle)

The good news is you're description is of the Ball Valve and thats good!
Means you don't have to worry about the gate valve failure stuff, which I won't confuse you with here.

Rigs already told you which way is open...

[Baltimore Sailor]

[snip] After 3 hours of trying (used a little spray sorry!) I started reading the A-4 77 issue manual and discovered the idle screw adjuster thing so I played with that a bit and.....BOO-YA! I let her run for about 20 to 30 min slowly throttling up and back. Ok, so now she'll crank with one key turn and will run at idle decently. When I throttle up, it doesn't exactly sputter but you can tell that the power isn't there for where the throttle is in relation to idle position. Also, a quick throttle forward will seize her. Main jet dirty perhaps? [snip]

Was it the idle adjuster or the idle mixture adjuster? The idle adjustment screw is on the carb and faces forward (10 o'clock on the picture); the idle mixture adjustment screw is on the carb and faces aft (2 o'clock on the picture).

(Image left is forward on a direct drive mount)

[hanleyclifford]

Good progress

.Just to make sure you got this part, study the profile picture of the carburator posted by BS. In the upper right corner is the idle mixture adjusting screw lying at 45 degree angle. When you turn this screw out, that is counterclockwise, you are making the mixture leaner. Try turning it in, clockwise, to enrich and you might get better off idle response. Also, look at the "plug" at the bottom right. Just a plug, but if yours has a small "T" handle, then you have an adjustable main jet. Let us know about this. Keep up the good work.

[roadnsky]

Pictures to help...

Also, look at the "plug" at the bottom right. Just a plug, but if yours has a small "T" handle, then you have an adjustable main jet..

Just to help you visualize what Hanley is describing above...

The first pic is the FIXED JET which is most likely what you'll have. (Slotted Plug)
The second is of the ADJUSTABLE JET. (T-Handle)

[Trumplestiltskin]

5 Days and counting....

it was the two o clock idle mixture adjuster that i played with. Goin to the boat to try to get some pics...(possibly engage the transmission?)

[Marian Claire]

Awhile back there was a thread about not being able to throttle up. The two small holes/ports in the throat/throttle valve area where discussed. I believe they are critical to smooth performance from idle to +- 1200 RPM when the main jet kicks in. After checking the main and idle jets as suggested above that would be something else to check if the problem continues. Dan S/V Marian Claire

[sastanley]

progress is good

OK, getting somewhere...

no gate valves (at least on the motor intake) - good!
the handle in line with the hose is open!

Need some pics to help out with other issues. You may need to do a quick & dirty clean of the carb to get the boat out of there...it's only two bolts to remove it, but if you tear up the gasket(s) on the carb flange pulling it off the engine or the carb bowl gasket pulling the carb apart, you'll need to replace them. They are only about $5, if you can find one...any marinas around there that stock engine parts? I happen to have one locally, but they have an Atomic4 mechanic on staff, so they stock parts.

For your immediate needs (getting away from here and to your other dock) you might be able to use some carb cleaner (not starting fluid) to clean up the inside of the carb good enough without disassembly.

• Do not spray the carb with your face close to it. A lot of things have return paths and will shoot carb cleaner right back at you..do not ask me how I know this.
• Remove carb (be careful with the flange gasket & try not to tear it..if you separate carefully using a putty knife or similar, it may come apart in one piece on the carb or stay on the motor.)
• Remove fuel line
• Spray the crap out of the fuel line "in" area to try and clean out junk in the float valve inside.
• Spray the crap out of the main jet - (great picture above by Jerry to show you the main jet behind the removed plug)..if your carb is like mine on my '77 Catalina 30, there may be TWO bolts in the bottom of the carb..a vertical one to drain (tapered threads), & a horizontal one which drains the main jet directy..open the horizontal one and spray the crap out of the jet. The horizontal plug is not tapered, and has a fiber washer..be careful with that, they are hard to find.
• Spray the other jets and stuff behind the main throttle butterfly plate..those are the ones Dan mentioned can cause throttle up/down issues. The main throttle plate is the one you can only see with the carb removed & has the throttle cable attached...the one with the smaller cable is the choke. Incidentally, I find I need full choke (choke butterfly closed) to start, but can back off to half choke pretty quickly & no choke after a few minutes. It sounds like you have it at least starting OK..

Trump...one more note, except you may have already left for the boat...you will likely find the shifting to be 'stiffer' than you think it should be. It should sorta clunk into forward into a 'detent' and positively engage. In reverse, you simply lean on the shifter and hold it...it should make a screeching noise in reverse..(that is normal and we'll explain later )

If it has been a while since this boat moved...the prop is likely full of marine growth, if you can even get the boat to crawl, you are in good shape!

Oh boy, does this remind me of me about 18 months ago. Keep at it!

[hanleyclifford]

The Carburetor Exercise

Dan is right about the off idle problem and those two holes. Later down the road you will get into stuff like well vent and jets and other interesting details about the carb. Right now you just need to get the boat to your slip. If you cannot get a good response by adjusting the mixture screw, try this. Remove the screw completely from the carb COUNTING exactly how many turns it takes to get it out. Then with a can of carb and choke cleaner hooked up to the little red plastic tube you get with the purchase, blast away into that hole, reinstall the screw EXACTLY where it was. Now play with the adjustment. Keep talking to us.

[Trumplestiltskin]

5 days left...

ok motor start and running at idle, transmission engaged forward and reverse no seize. tightened the shrouds, raised the jib - roller furling solid, raised a reefed main (it was windy as hell and I REALLY wanted to be out there...) battens look good. two danforths @ 15 and 5 lbs recoiled ropes, they look strong but eyebolt rusty

NEW ISSUE(s) : When I got there this morning there was ankle deep water in the cabin. After pumping the bilge, I started the motor and saw that there is a leaking? water dribble coming from the prop shaft. Is this normal? I didnt think so since it wasnt there before I got the motor running. If so, how can i rig an automatic electric bilge pump to the battery without frying anything? Also, When I turn the battery selector the stereo and vhf get juice, but there is an 8 switch control panel that does not. Is it an A/C panel for shore power? Is something disconnected? When I get the depth meter in the mail someone tell me how to hook it up and I'm gonna try to move her Mem day. Thanks! I'll be back to post pictures after i get back from dockmaster proof of insurance meeting. Is 500k CSL enough?

[Marian Claire]

A slow drip is normal and actually good because it cools the shaft. Yours is leaking way too much. You should be able to tighten the nut on the stuffing box and slow down the flow. You will probable need two pipe wrenches/channel locks to do this. If that does not work then the packing is shot and will need to be replaced but that should be done during a haul out. The stuffing box is at the bottom of the pic.
I take it you do not have an electric bilge pump? If you do, a float switch is easy to install if you have a place to mount it. I realize on fiberglass boats that could be a problem.
Who knows what the PO did with the electrical system. The 8 breakers are probably for the 12 volt system. Are they labeled? Send pics and others here with electrical minds will help you. Dan S/V Marian Claire

[roadnsky]

Good article on Stuffing Box here:

http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/stuffing_box

Shawn-
Have you checked this out for your "adventure"?

http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/pss_shaft_seal

[sastanley]

priority check!

Uh, oh...probably broke loose the packing in the box from spinning the prop. Also, check the oil level in the motor and make sure it is OK (not too high or now milky)...the dipstick hole is low on the engine and it can allow water in during 'minor sinkings' - (don't worry, been there done that too!!)

I bet Jerry's links get you to a stuffing box work...that Maine Cruising guy is awesome. I haven't checked them out yet. This part is important to keep the water out...it should drip once every 30 seconds...Look at the pic below, with labels from my Catalina 30. There is packing inside the big nut, which is slightly shaded. Neil has a good pic of his too, and his access is better. Nice almost studio quality pics at Maine Cruising's site. You might be able to get away with an adjustment for now to get the boat to the marina and the leak under control.

With a wrench on both nuts (channel locks or pipe wrenches), loosen the little lock nut in the back (If I remember, counter clockwise looking from the back of the shaft towards the engine) & then once the lock nut is loose, turn the big nut the same way by hand if it lets you...this moves the big nut back towards the prop and squeezes the packing to slow the drip/trickle. Once you get it set to once per 30, tighten the skinnier locking nut up to it. Be careful when torquing not to put side forces on the shaft..This is a pain in the a** on these boats due to access issues and the floor in the way, but you need to stop the boat from sinking.

Don't bother with a depth sounder. You are wasting valuable time messing with that for now. You have to keep the boat from sinking. Do you have a chart? Know how to read it? If not, get a a 6-pack for a friend that does and ask for help with the delivery. Get a long pole (bamboo, long handle crab net, etc..) and use it as a depth guide if necessary...have someone on the bow and use it to check depth when you are in skinny water..you need 5' 3"...mark it at 5', 6', etc. Alternately, use a 'lead line', which is basically a one or two ounce fishing weight on a string that is fat enough to draw sharpie marks (stripes work well, every foot, with different types of stripes every six inches so you can tell the difference.) You toss it out just in front of you (from the side of the boat) and just tension the line to pull it off the bottom as it goes straight down by you just along the side of the boat..voila! depth. Practice sitting still to get the technique down..you should have it by the 3rd or 4th toss.

That brown panel, if it is still in the back of the galley, is likely the DC panel. AC panels are usually labeled. There is a "Master" at the bottom of the switch, that is supposed to turn off the others. There are usually wiring issues with these as they age...- The VHF getting juice is good...I bet the P.O. (Previous Owner) tied those into something else, maybe on that panel & maybe directly to the big switch...my stereo was conveniently wired to the "Cabin Lights" switch...& there is a mysterious ground wire which that is needed to make the panel work at all...so the point is, anything is possible...you'll have lots of time to trace them if we can get that boat to Williamsburg!

You really gotta start snapping some pics, dude....even in old C-30's, the boats changed a lot coming out of the factory, and it is hard to tell what you are talking about, and I have the same boat you do.

You sound like a young, intelligent, enthusiastic guy..please don't take my rant/post as negative. I WANT you to succeed with this boat. If I could do so, I'd drive down to help you..I am just too far away and have other things I am in the middle of in relation to your immediate time constraints, so typing fast on the Internet will have to do.

Isn't it amazing how a slow trickle fills the boat so fast???