Engine will not start

[wmmulvey]

Engine no start
1969 morgan 30’
newer a-4 engine

1. Points, rotor, condensor, coil, distributor cap, spark plug wires, and plugs all brand new and are working properly. Spark to all plugs ok.

2. Timing right on

3. Good compression in all cylinders

4. Batterys charged

5. Engine cranks good

6. Gas pumping pressure to carb good.

7. Gas in carb

8. No gas going to cylinders. Plugs dry

9. Ether (quick start) sprayed into carb. Engine will not even try to start.

10. Some minor poping sound at exhaust outlet while cranking


i do not know much about the workings of the a-4 engine other than the above.

Thinking possibly not enough engine pressure to cylinders or valve timing off.

Any ideas please for the route to take without tearing everything apart
tia

[Mo]

Was it running before you changed out the ignition parts? Your timing should not move unless you moved it. You said you had spark.

- is everything re-installed correctly.
- double check the spark plug wires to ensure they are on correctly. Looking in at the engine...flywheel to transmission direction in forward facing engine...the number one plug should be on the distributor cap more outboard of the engine . Looking from number one plug on the front of the engine the distibutor #1 should be at 8:30 or 9 as you look in over the engine. 12:00 would be directly toward the rear where you are facing.
- -#1...goes to ... # 1 plug at front of engine.
- -clockwise, next #2... # 2 plug
- -clockwise, next #3... # 4 plug
- -clockwise, next #4... # 3 plug

Give that a look because it's easy to make a mistake and have difficulty.

[wmmulvey]

Re:

Maurice

Thanks

Ignition working perfectly

Spark to all plugs

[lat 64]

-180 ?

You may have good spark, but it might not be timed correctly. That's what Mo is getting at. The popping out the exhaust is another clue of this out-of-timing idea.

Did you ever have it running well after you installed the new ignition parts?
If not, then we suspect something just got installed out of time.
Rotor cap or distributor backwards?
This has happen to all if us think, so were not too uppity here

Russ

P.S. you can get it running on gas. Just toss the ether can to someone who does not subscribe to a supportive web forum.

[Al Schober]

Naah, starting ether has it's uses. It's good for a quick check to see if there are fuel issues or ignition issues. Here it sounds like there are ignition and/or timing issues.
Starting ether is also good for potato cannons.

Al

[hanleyclifford]

Sounds like a possible 180 out; happens to all of us.

[Will Jacocks]

Give the can of ether to someone trying to start his diesel truck and watch the fireworks.

I have heard of some busted pistons and rods from that, so maybe better not.

[pknier]

something else to check

double check ignition switch, may have conductivity in the crank/start position but be "dead" in the run position...that is what happened to us, spent days tracking everything else...your symptoms sound similar...worth an easy check.
pck

[Carl-T705]

Have you ever had this engine running? Spraying starting fluid into an engine with good spark will ignite something , it will either run or backfire through the exhaust or intake, regardless of the timing. If your spraying this engine with none of the above results you have a blocked intake or no spark.
That is assuming this is a operating engine which doesn't have exhaust vales rusted open and is drawing air in through the intake. Good Luck

[wmmulvey]

Re: Engine no start

THANKS FOR ALL YOUR HELP


Engine running great last 4 yrs. plus.

Replaced rotor, points, condensor, wires, and plugs as routine spring maint.

Did not touch timing.

Last run of A-4 was on 6/9/11 for an hour or so.

Week later was the start of the NO START problem.


At that time I did all the ignition checks and replaced dist. cap and coil.

Compression good on all fours.

TDC on the compression cycle. Rotor facing 9 o'clock. Rotor on the dist. (left it off once a long time ago

) LOL

#1 SP wire from flywheel end at 9 o'clock
#2 at 12 o'lock
#4 at 3 o'clock
#3 at 6 o'clock

Gas good

Carb float bowl OK.

I do not think the carb jet is fouled but will check this out in the next round.

Next step maybe valve timing.

I went on Moyer Marine and I did not see any parts labeled VALVE TIMING GEAR.

In the service manual under the troubleshooting section under ENGINE WILL NOT START (POOR COMPRESSION AND OTHER CAUSES) it suggests valve problems amoung other things.

Has anyone done a valve timing? How difficult is that?

Does the The Moyer Marine Service and Overhaul Manual show the complete breakdown and rebuild of the A-4.

[RMark]

Possible fouled/shorted plugs? Try removing plug and laying it on head while cranking and see if sparks across gap, if not, hold plug away from ground approx. 1/4 inch and see if it sparks to ground. My A4 seemed to foul all four plugs after shutting engine off for short time while returning from Catalina, difficult to diagnose at sea, it seemed to have everything it needed to run, but stilll wouldn't start. Possible funky fuel or salt water intrusion.

[hanleyclifford]

Maybe check the gap on the points. If you set between .018" and .020" as recommended you may not be getting sufficient dwell to develop the spark you need. I have often seen engines that appear to have good spark but will not start because the spark is insufficient to fire thru compression. I have also experienced a brand new condenser that was no good. Dwell should always be set with a meter without regard to point gap specification. Unfortunately, the engine needs to be running first. As a starting point, try setting at .015" and see if she will start.

[ILikeRust]

I doubt your VALVE timing could be off, based on what you've described, but based on the fact that you've recently replaced the points, distributor cap, etc., I would bet that your IGNITION timing quite likely could be off. Which would explain the backfiring out the carb.

Did you mess with the bolt that holds down the distributor at all? Just changing the points could affect timing as well as the dreaded dwell angle.

[Carl-T705]

I would go back to square one, Since this was just routine seasonal tune up take the "new parts" out and replace with the old parts and see what she does. New means new not neccessarily good. I would tend to think the point gap closed after a little running, but then you claim it has good spark at the plugs so that would eliminate ignition, Is your fuel from last year or entirely fresh fuel, old smelly gas will barely burn a brushpile. Do you have a good seal on your fuel cap that keeps water out? you may be pumping water and not fuel into this engine. As has been mentioned elsewhere use a test light on the Positive side of the coil to be sure it has voltage when cranking the starter. You could possible have a bad alt/gen that is shorting out killing the voltage going to the distributor. Do you know how to make sure No. 1 cylinder is at TDC on the firing stroke by simply removing the sparkplug and holding your finger over the plug hole, until the compression blows your finger off the hole, then check the distributor phasing to be sure the No1 plug wire is lined up with the rotor? Just some random thinking on my part,

[67c&ccorv]

I doubt your VALVE timing could be off, based on what you've described, but based on the fact that you've recently replaced the points, distributor cap, etc., I would bet that your IGNITION timing quite likely could be off. Which would explain the backfiring out the carb.

Did you mess with the bolt that holds down the distributor at all? Just changing the points could affect timing as well as the dreaded dwell angle.

Bingo!