Indigo

[sastanley]

OK Neil...I'll try to relax...

We had 10 Lasers out tonight in Thursday night racing and I was #2 in my 30 year old boat. There aren't many still floating with only 5 digits in the hull number. (mine is 86153)

[sastanley]

update

Ok, so I went to the boat and worked on some other stuff pending haulout.

I took some pictures of the stuffing box area with the good camera. Let's see where the discussion goes from here. I will comment that I have MUCH less water ingressing in the boat today than I had 5 days ago...I am wondering if the 34 year old hose swells up after a few days and reduces the amount of water coming in.

I also ran the motor in the slip today for about 60 minutes while I worked on other stuff....she ran admirably, with no change in leak rate of the stuffing box..mostly at 1,300 RPM.

These pictures do not show the detail I was hoping for...and I still cannot tell exactly where the leak is coming from. I suspect the original hose is failing and it is coming in from the aft end of the hose....but until I have the boat in the slings, I don't want to mess with it too much and make it worse and require an emergency haul-out.

You can see the previous 'repair' better in the 2nd pic.

Checking in with the yard tomorrow so I can haul at their convenience.

[sastanley]

here's the shot I got with the mirror.
I think the water is coming in from underneath the hose..it's the best i could do.
I am hauling the boat anyway...I've had some discussion with the yard that I can put it in the slings and try to figure out the water ingress prior to hauling...these guys take good care of me!

[hanleyclifford]

Visual evidence

Shawn - The picture appears to reveal two separate attempts to fix the leak. Note two different colors on the sealant. I would be willing to bet dollars to donuts there is nothing wrong with your stuffing box OR the connecting hose. This leak is the result of years of misalignment. I would not be in a hurry to haul out; rather I would focus on the engine mounts and shaft alignment. If you have an auto bilge pump, and you keep the boat at your dock, you've got the place and time you need to correct this disorder. You could probably enjoy the rest of the season and fix the shaft log at fall haulout time. Hanley

[sastanley]

Hanley, in all fairness....the second (whiter) color sealant is 4200 that I put there about 3 days ago to try to reduce the water ingress that I noticed with the boat sitting at the dock...I do not know if it was successful, but it was only a stop-gap measure so the boat wouldn't sink while I was at work. (I do not have an auto bilge pump switch.)

My wife has responded to me that she is OK with pulling the boat (again) and repairing this issue before we go cruising. I have also chatted with the yard to check on their schedule...I am hoping to put it in the slings at lunch time this week and then open up the clamps to see if it is the hose or a structural problem prior to haul that the Marine Tex repair was covering up and held until now. and then repair appropriately.

At any rate, the boat is getting hauled again..it is only $$$

I hope you are right...and a simple stuffing box refurbishment fixes everything.

[hanleyclifford]

Boat descisions

Shawn - Here on the Vineyard the saying goes," ...if the wife does not love the boat, the boat is doomed". We are really blessed when our wives take an interest in our boats. As soon as you are in the slings, get her apart and get the max time possible for drying out. I like to leave a 60w bulb on over an area overnight if possible. I think you are going to find this repair a lot more manageable than you thought. We are standing by on this one. Regards, Hanley

[rheaton]

To me the hose looked like it has some cracks. I would replace it when you can. Perhaps it is leaking from the underside. I did the same hose replacement on my 78 Catalina 30. It was called for in my survey. The hardest part of the job was getting the coupling off the shaft.

Best of luck.

[rigspelt]

Shawn, I've kind of lost track of your story to this point, but I think the summary is that you have not had a chance yet with your new old boat to remove the shaft and stuffing box. The problem now appears to be leaking at the stern tube, where the stuffing box connecting hose attaches to the stern tube, perhaps from an old crack in the stern tube.

Uncoupling the shaft (getting those three bolts out of the tranny side and sliding the coupling off the shaft) can be the nastiest part, but it will come with patience and plannng. See the coupling budge on the disconnected shaft was a joyous moment of achievement in my life. Once you have that shaft out, you can remove the stuffing box and hose and have a good look at everything. I agree with rheaton - the connecting hose looks old, and it only has one clamp each end.

Your peace of mind will be greater I suspect with a good look at that stern tube. If it was me, knowing my mindset, I might be settling into the notion of parking the boat on the hard and taking my time with this one, enjoying the boatyard ambience for as long as it takes this summer. I might want to chip out those epoxy patches to clear everything away, then reinsert the shaft without attaching it to the engine to see how it runs in the stern tube, to check for clearances within the tube and alignment to the engine from the cutless bearing. I would take lots of photos, inspect carefully for structural integrity, look for evidence of rubbing or slap inside the tube, and measure the stern tube length, ID and OD carefully.

The worst case scenario is a stern tube rebuild, but the only really bad thing about that is the time it takes to research, plan and execute the rebuild, I suspect (I have no experience with that particular job, but have read about others').

All part of boating karma. Time to see the glass half full of one's favourite sunshine.

These photos are our before and after (the after is just loose-fitted to figure out clamping).

[sastanley]

Hey rigs..
you pretty much got it right..good summary.

Thanks for posting those photos..everyone has been asking me about a dripless seal when/if I replace this one...I am not 100% sure I see all the benefit..I kinda like a traditional stuffing box in that I can see the water coming in reminding me for sure the shaft is getting lubricated...I see you retained a traditional one as well.

Your suggestions are exactly how I plan to approach this one. chip away the old stuff, dry fit everything 20 million times to make sure it's right, etc.

Although I miss the sailing on my own boat, I don't really mind whether I am working on her or sailing on her

[rigspelt]

I see now on reviewing the thread that you've had the coupling disconnected already -- have you had the coupling off the shaft too? If so, you're half way there.

PSS shaft seals seem to be great. They require more room on the shaft than a traditional stuffing box, so check that out first if you decide to look at it. The bellows out of the box is expanded to a longer length than when in operation, and during installation has to be compressed to get the right pressure between the stainless part that binds to the shaft and the carbon face on the bellows. You'll also need a good stern tube fit for the bellows, and the OD of the stern tube has to match the ID of the bellows. PSS can customize the bellows when one orders the kit.

When I researched this, the world of smaller sailboaters seemed split: those that could afford it and went that way love them. Those used to the old way are just as happy.

[sastanley]

No, I have not had the coupling off the shaft yet. Apparently, I can hopefully press it off by getting longer bolts and using a socket of the correct diameter..so once I have the boat on the hard, I'll pull a coupling bolt and take it off to the hardware store to find a matching longer one.

Although access to my engine is generally great, the stuffing box & prop coupling area is not so good, so I am little limited in my options there (pullers, access, space, etc..)

Thanks for the info on the PSS.

[Dave Neptune]

Leaks

Hey Shawn, this has been a heck of a ride for you. I have seen all too many times a leak like you are talking about. The area around the end of the shaft log may not actually be the leak. All to many times when I have removed the S/box and hoses I have found the area that the hose seals against to be very rough and very difficult to seal because of the roughness. The hose is probably old and "hard" so it does not squeeze down and seal as well as it used too. I had this problem on mine and it was difficult to find and very easy to fix. I slid the hose and the S/box forward and used som wet/dry sandpaper because water was coming in and smoothed the surface of the tube. the leak went away. Fortunately I had the room to slide the tube & box forward enough to do the smoothing. Most of the tubes in that era were glassed in and not very well finished. There is a lot of material behind what you are seeing and for it to be crackaed all the way through and be leaking is doubtfull however not impossible. NOTE the bilge pump more than kept up with the leaking water as the shaft itself blocks a lot of the shaft area.

If you have the room try a bit of sanding ONLY if the hose is easy to slide forward as you don't want it to tear on the inside, which may allready be the problem. If you do not see water coming through the crack the leak may well be as I described. The area of the shaft is usually very strong as there is a lot of material in the area, I doubt it cracked anywhere but on the surface much like a gel-coat crack.

Good luck, Dave Neptune

[rigspelt]

Although access to my engine is generally great, the stuffing box & prop coupling area is not so good, so I am little limited in my options there (pullers, access, space, etc..).

Another reason to study the PSS solution before diving in.

Like Dave Neptune, I did some fine-tuning of the outside of the stern tube to fit new stuffing box connecting hose. In my case, the OD was variable and a hair less than the ID of the hose I had, which lead to some upside-down gyrations to get in there.

Update: What I meant about the PSS comment, was that if access is an issue, then fitting the PSS and maintaining it could be tricky.

[thatch]

"A deal we shouldn't refuse"

Shawn,
I'll make you a deal, if you will agree to repair your shaft tube correctly, then I will agree to replace my totally rusted right rear motor mount, (mentioned in post #58). My job will involve disconnecting my prop shaft, unbolting the 3 good mounts, cutting the rusted mount, raising the engine, replacing the mount and re-aligning the the whole assembly. Your job (to be done correctly in my opinion) involves removing the shaft, (even at the cost of distroying it if necessary), grinding away the old repairs and replacing or resealing the shaft tube using glass cloth and epoxy resin, not just the cats hair type of filler used previousely and re-aligning and rebolting (a PSS shaft seal if you have the room) parts.
Although I am no "perfectionist" by any means, my rusted motor mount is a source of aggrivation that I can do without as, I feel, an improper repair job would be on your part. Give it some thought.
Tom

[sastanley]

do it right

Tom,
I agree with you. I am going to suspect that this is the path I will take. I've already alerted the wife to the potential costs, the haul out (again!) being the only 'extra' cost I will have incurred. A new shaft is $220, the stuffing box is about $75, the coupler (if I have to break the old one to get it off & the shaft out) is about $65, & the cutless bearing $40.
The only thing left if there is real damage is the tube itself, which I am suspecting as Dave commented, it is unlikely that is damaged. This boat was never dropped or out in 20 foot seas flying off waves in the ocean or anything..I suspect my 34 year old, single clamped stuffing box hose is to blame for my leak, but it is also time to grind away the old stuff while I am in there!

I've already got the new prop