Oil ring backing spring?

[ILikeRust]

I just read something I really don't like:

The original Atomic Four rings didn't have an oil ring backing spring, but the replacement Hasting rings do. It doesn't say in the instructions included with the Hastings rings, but the oil ring backing spring has to be installed with the gap in the spring over the slot in the piston at the bottom of the oil ring land. If you cover the slot with the backing spring the engine will usually burn oil after a rebuild.

Found here.

Anyone know anything about this? I was not so careful about the alignment of the oil ring backing springs with relation to the slot in the piston. I was careful regarding alignment of the ring gaps - or, more importantly, off-setting the ring gaps. But I don't think I installed the oil ring backing springs with the gap in the spring over the slot in the piston. The springs were sort of perforated along the edges, so I assumed that they would not block the slots enough to be an issue.

Jeez, I hope this is not true - I really, really don't want to have to open the whole damn thing back up just to spin the rings a few degrees...

[ThomasJ.]

Ow... Im in the same Boat...
figuratively...

Looking at it though, it seems that oil would still drain out...
But I too would like to hear some opinions on this...
Would NOT be fun taking everything back out for that. ... yikes.

[thatch]

Bill,
Although Hess is a well respected name in the A4 community, I would not be in a hurry to tear your engine appart to re-position the rings. Upon closer inspection of my standby, new set of pistons and rings, I fail to see how covering the piston slot is going to make much of an oil control difference. My "Hastings Rings" instructions makes no mention of the positioning of the backing spring and If it were really an issue it probably would have been highlighted.
Tom

[ILikeRust]

I'm assuming the theory is that the slot in the oil ring groove assists in allowing excess oil scraped off the cylinder wall to drain down back into the crankcase, and the spring can cover the slot, presenting a barrier to that "return" oil flow.

The springs that came with my ring set (from Moyer) are kind of "perforated" along the edges - sort of like postage stamps - and it certainly seems to me it's unlikely they would present a sufficient barrier as to prevent that oil flow - assuming, again, that that is the supposed issue.

I guess I will find out when I get the engine running - and of course, before I have to worry about it burning oil, I first have to get it to have some oil pressure!

Flying home this Friday; I plan on working on the engine this weekend, with my goal being getting it all running and dialed in by the end of the weekend. Here's hoping.

[Mo]

Good to know.

Another tid-bit to store in the back of my tiny little mind. Great info.

[ILikeRust]

I'm not sure I believe it, though. I'd love to see someone from Moyer weigh in...

[thatch]

Agreed

Bill,
On this issue, I think it would be appropriate.
Tom

[hanleyclifford]

With due respect for Mr. Hess I have to say that in all the ring replacements I have done on A4s I have never heard of this and obviously never followed the procedure. Never had a ring problem. FWIW

[genefa]

how do I post a new thread?

how do I post a new thread?
genefa

[ILikeRust]

how do I post a new thread?
genefa

1. Click on the link in the upper left corner of the page that says "Moyer Marine Atomic 4 Community - Home of the Afourians". That will take you to the main forum page.

2. Scroll down the page below the "recent threads" section, and select the appropriate section of the forum to post your new thread in. For example, "Overhaul" or "Cooling System." Click on the appropriate section.

3. Once you're there, you'll see a button in the upper left corner that says "New Thread".

[67c&ccorv]

Wondering if anyone has a photo showing the Atomic 4 piston oil groove?

If it's anything like the one in the early Norton Commando 750/850 I can only quote what the man at Venolia pistons told me when I questioned the lack of such a slot in the new pistons Venolia made up for me;

"no one designs or makes pistons like that anymore!"

[ILikeRust]

Well I didn't get any good pics of the pistons when I had mine out, but thatch sent me a couple pics backchannel, and I'm assuming he won't mind if I "borrow" them. These show the slot as well as the oil ring backing spring:





As Tom observed when he sent me those pics, it seems to me there's plenty of perforations for oil to drain back in, and if you look carefully at the backing spring, you'll see that it has little cuts out of the edges, so it shouldn't block anything to the extent that oil can't return to the crankcase.

I'm just trying to figure out how having the spring in there with the gap not aligned with the slot would cause the engine to burn oil.

[hanleyclifford]

I have often wondered about those little cutouts in the backing spring. Years ago I worked with some that did not have them. Is it possible than Mr. Hess's comments predate the introduction of that feature and that possibly the feature is a solution to the problem Mr. Hess describes? Just speculating, but it does seem to help "idiot proof" the installation which in my case has worked!

[Don Moyer]

We can all breath a long sigh of relief. According to Hastings tech service (as per a telephone conversation between Lisa of Hastings and Don Moyer from MMI) the orientation of the oil ring expander spring has no consequence on its function, either with respect to the location of the end gap of the spring or in terms of which side goes up or down.

Hanley, I also have a vague recollection of expander springs of a slightly different design which would handily explain the Hess caution note. However, when I posed that possibility to Lisa, she said it was entirely possible but it would have been before her time (made me feel a bit dated).

Don

[thatch]

"Oops"

Don,
Thank's for your input, it's always reassuring.

Bill,
If I had known these pictures were going public, I would have scrubbed the grout first.
Tom