hole in water jacket

[Va Pensiero]

1978 salt water cooled Atomic 4 has developed a hole in the water jacket. By that I mean the plate held on with 8 bolts where the water enters the block and eventually to the thermostat. Do I need to remove the engine to take off and replace this plate? I'm certain the bolts will snap off and space on my Person 30 is limited on that side. Any suggestions?

[Mo]

Depends on room to work.

Take a picture. Sometimes those plates rust through. JB weld might be a temporary repair but I'd call Ken at MMI and get another one. Removing the alternator, MMI also has kits for the bolts...Ken will know.

[hcrisp]

Ambassador Mo

Mo, you are truly a great ambassador for the A4 and this forum. Fantastic response and advice.
I think if my (water jacket) side plate was shot i would not hesitate to buy a new one from Moyer Marine. New plate assembly including new diverter. Problem solved.
Howard

[Loki9]

The water jacket side plate on my A4 also rusted through. I replaced it as part of a complete rebuild.

I also have a P30 and I think you could replace the plate without pulling the motor. At least try it, as you have little to lose. Patching it will just delay the inevitable, and the likely leaks will hasten the deterioration of other components.

If you must, it's not that hard to drag the A4 out of its hole into the main salon where you can do the job with good access. If you decide to go this route, let me know as I can offer some details on how I did it.

[edwardc]

I agree with Loki; give it a try. On my Pearson 323, I can gain pretty good access to that side of the engine through one of the cockpit lockers, after the perfboard "walls" are removed.

I also strongly recommend the stud kit. You're right, one or more of those bolts will shear off or strip out the hole. And if there's been a significant amount of corrosion, there won't be much metal for enough threads to engage the bolts.

The stud kit consists of a stainless strap that spans two of the bolt holes, and studs, nuts, and washers. The studs are threaded into the strap, and locked in place with JB Weld. Now you generate force by tightening the nut on the stud instead of tightening a bolt into threads in the block.



I felt so strongly about the superior nature of this arrangement that I had the stud kits preemptively installed on all 8 boltholes in the Moyer-rebuilt short block that I purchased a few years ago.

[Va Pensiero]

Water Jacket leak

Thanks to all for help with water jacket leak. I have the plate off(with great difficulty) and have attempted to dry fit the new plate using the stainless steel repair kit studs. When I attempt to fit the plate over the studs some are mis-aligned. Any suggestions as to how to properly fit the plate over the studs. And again thanks for encouragement and previous help.
John Va Pensiero

[Jesse Delanoy]

I did the plate replacement on my Catalina 30 some years ago. The bolt hole at the upper right hand (forward) corner was damaged, and I had to patch it together with the broken metal fragment and JB weld to make a makeshift hole that a stud could go through.

After making this repair, the two-hole strap would not fit properly behind this and the adjacent hole. Using a Dremel tool, I cut one of the straps in half, so that I could fit the studs in these two holes independently of each other. With the strap and the stud in place, I loaded up the repaired hole with lots more JB weld so it hopefully wouldn't leak (it didn't), put the new side plate on and fastened all of the nuts.

This arrangement worked perfectly, although I'm glad I never had to open the side plate again, as I'm not sure that the repair would have stood another disassembly and reassembly. It held just fine for about four or five more years, until the engine had to be replaced for other reasons.

I'm a big believer in the Moyer side plate repair kit.

Jesse Delanoy
Former Afourian

[sastanley]

John, as Jesse said, you may have to improvise...

Try to figure out which stud is off. I built my own 'stud kit' before mine was bad enough I had to go to the strap style repair kit. Additionally, two of my eight bolts were already oversized by the P.O. This made for a little trouble aligning the plate, but I was eventually successful. I think the key is to try and get the plate onto each stud, a wet fit, while the JB Weld or other thread locker you are using is still wet, that way there is a little wiggle room for each stud to center on its respective hole in the plate...Then when you are successful, carefully remove the plate so the epoxy can harden. Once it hardens you're 'locked in' to the stud location.

Cutting one of the straps on the stud repair kit (to separate them) may bring a successful outcome. I'd keep as much strap material to help act as a washer/backing plate on the inside of the block.

Do you already have them epoxied into the block?

[Va Pensiero]

I'm still playing with a dry fit prior to using JB weld. Dry fitted using two kits that equals a total of four bolts. Both kits are in the center two holds, top and bottom. I plan to use the regular bolts on the other four holes. When attempting to fit the jacket one of the studs is approx. 1/2 hole diameter off. I'm tempted to enlarge the water jacket hold into and oval to accept the off center stud. Prior to doing that I ask for help. Am I creating a problem if I do this? Know of any other solution other than one suggested to cut the bar in half? Not sure how cutting the bar in half would make the stud align properly.
Certainly appreciate all the help. Is indeed useful to a retired guy who only knew how to sell product and is totally baffled by engines.
John

[67c&ccorv]

My suggestion would be to do everything you can to get the studs to line up with the new plate before JB welding them in place.

Drilling the holes in the water jacket plate oversize to fit the out of line studs may create a water leak.

[sastanley]

John, 67 is right....don't go drilling stuff out yet..can you take some pics to help us out?

[timkb]

Side cooling plate

Did you compare the old and new plates by holding them against each other? It's hard to imagine that the bolt holes would have different centers but mistakes do happen.

I have a P-30 also #606.

[hanleyclifford]

It is possible the hole in the block is off, perhaps the result of an earlier repair.

[sastanley]

Hanley, exactly what I was thinking, but I didn't get it out. Mine were off from a P.O. repair.

[uminski]

I also have a salt water cooled late model and tonite I just discovered a water leak in the water inlet manifold. The leak is at the threads of the brass "T" fitting that connects into the 8 hole steel plate on the side of the motor. It looks like I have to take out the distrubutor rotor, alternator and the (8) 1/2 inch bolts . The threads on the brass T fitting are fin. The steel plate threads corroded.

Attached is a diagram and its part #2 that attached to the plate that is loose and water leaks. The hole where part #2 fits in the steel plate neeeds service.





Any suggestions on parts to buy to fix the leak?

Regards
Alan