A-4 (1972) cranks slowly as if batt. is dead

[Shrek]

Fuel supply/filtration/gear shifting with wheel steering

Jimmy,
Thanks for the info re. the new fuel bowl etc.
My mechanic said he found nothing inside the bowl when he removed it - no screen ?? He just cleaned it all up and re-installed it, and I don't think he even replaced the gasket ??
I have seen, somewhere on the internet, a fuel bowl fitted with a 7 micron paper element, cartridge type polishing filter, which I believe fits right over the nipple inside the top of the bowl housing. Have you heard of anyone successfully doing this or should I simply replace it using the new s/s bowl, bale and an OEM filter mesh screen, and of course a new gasket?
I am so ecstatic about how well and how quietly my A4 is running now, that each time I go down to the marina, I sart her up just to listen to her "singing"
For some reason she seems to be much quieter and smoother now ! Starts straight up on the first push of the starter button, with full choke and a very small amount of throttle at the throttle lever.
New Oberdorfer FWC Pump going in and a new choke cable in the next couple of days due to a shaft leak causing a low loss of coolant. next job is fixing a stiff gear shifter cable on the Edson Wheel binnacle. Looks like the install should have used the heavier lever for the shift cable,at the binnacle end because the A4 needs a 20lb. force to move the mechanical shift lever at the engine end. They may have to convert over to the heavier duty shifter lever, if they can't loosen things up.

Gordon Foster, Vancouver, BC, Canada/ Point Roberts Marina, WA. USA

A4 FWC/1972/Columbia30/Wheel Steering/continuing project

[ndutton]

Two things Gordon,

1. You are correct, the binnacle shift is way different for the A-4, should look something like this one. Chances are if your pedestal was factory installed it is likely a Yacht Specialties brand rather than an Edson.
2. I worked at the factory when your boat was built. The Columbia 30 line was next to mine.

[BadaBing]

"Can the newer Moyer Marine s/s fuel bowl, sediment, screen, and gasket be fitted to the old fuel bowl housing and using the new bale assembly?"

I can say with certainty that it fits perfectly ....and that shiny stainless steel adds just a touch of class to the old beast

Cheers

I have an extra, after replacing the bowl on year and the mechanical fuel pump the next. I like.it so much that I keep the extra on a book shelf for dodads.
It's to small.or I would use it for a water glass.

[BadaBing]

Shrek.
Per Ken at Moyer Marine. Do not install a filter.in the sediment bowl. If any water makes its way to the bowl and is trapped there it will cause the fittings on the paper filter to rust (it did to mine) and may/will cause trouble in the carb.

Add an inline (polishing) filter between the main fuel tank cult e r and your fuel pump or between the fuel pump and carb.

[Shrek]

Fuel filter bowl and screen

My water separating 10 micron, I believe, filter is between the fuel tank and the feed to the sediment bowl. I found elsewhere on this site, the secondary cartridge which can be placed inside the fuel bowl, is actually also a 10 micron filter, so I could not see what possible use it would have been unless it had been less than 10 microns. However I have now decided that 10 microns should be enough and I will order a new s/s bowl, bale, gasket and mesh screen to imrove on the original equipment and get the sexy look of the new bowl into my engine compartment. I wonder how many microns that mesh screen is anyway??? Should the jet in the carb be okay at 10 microns in my main fuel filter or should I be aiming for a lower micron rating. Or is the real problem the goop caused by the ethanol in the fuel, or just because my engine lay dormant for a couple of months. I now start it every time I go down to the boat and run it up until I've seen the thermostat kicking in and out a few times on the water temp. gauge. I am now paranoid regarding overheating and fuel conditioning issues, having apparently cured both in my 10 or so months of owning Dawn Treader. It is a good thing, paranoia - it keep us on our toes !

[JOHN COOKSON]

My water separating 10 micron, I believe, filter is between the fuel tank and the feed to the sediment bowl. I found elsewhere on this site, the secondary cartridge which can be placed inside the fuel bowl, is actually also a 10 micron filter, so I could not see what possible use it would have been unless it had been less than 10 microns. However I have now decided that 10 microns should be enough and I will order a new s/s bowl, bale, gasket and mesh screen to imrove on the original equipment and get the sexy look of the new bowl into my engine compartment. I wonder how many microns that mesh screen is anyway??? Should the jet in the carb be okay at 10 microns in my main fuel filter or should I be aiming for a lower micron rating. Or is the real problem the goop caused by the ethanol in the fuel, or just because my engine lay dormant for a couple of months. I now start it every time I go down to the boat and run it up until I've seen the thermostat kicking in and out a few times on the water temp. gauge. I am now paranoid regarding overheating and fuel conditioning issues, having apparently cured both in my 10 or so months of owning Dawn Treader. It is a good thing, paranoia - it keep us on our toes !

I guess you know the fuel should see the course filter first then the finer filter last.

You asked "is the problem caused by ethanol in the fuel or because the engine lay dormant for a couple of months?" It could be both. How new is the fuel in the tank? Also how clean is the tank and the fuel in the tank? You may have water in the tank which is some how getting past the separator and filters. Some members have found that ethanol laced fuel especially with water in it can raise hell in the carb even after passing through filters and separators. It can be a battle if you don't have clean fuel in the tank. You may have a handle on this already.

BTW I think of as being conscientious rather than paranoid. I do find it rather amazing that the more you know the more you find to do as far as these engines are concerned.

TRUE GRIT

[Shrek]

Yes, I do realize the finer filters always go closer in order towards the carb.

Some of the fuel in the tank was as old as August 2015 and the tank has been topped up with a couple of gallons to around 12-14 gallons in total. The fuel also has stabilizer in it and the engine is running perfectly for now.

The condition of the tank we are assuming to be excellent given that the tank is made of Monel and looks to be in first class shape externally.

After the carb and sediment bowl were cleaned out and the blocked jet serviced and the new starter motor fitted she started right up immediately.

I will run her a few more hours yet and do as the mechanic suggested- empty out the fuel filter (which does not have the water valve at the bottom) into a bucket and examine how much water and sediment I find, if any, and proceed from whatever I find at that time. For now I have ordered the new s/s sediment bowl, screen filter, bale, and seating washer for the bowl in the hope that this will be a good upgrade of a 43 yr. old engine, as I will at least have some parts which should last a very long time without worrying about corrosion from within the bowl. Do you think the Racor water separating filter would be a better way to go, as far as periodic checking by simply undoing the nut on the lower part of the housing is concerned vs. having to remove my existing filter completely to make the same check. Would only water get to the visible part of the lower chamber. If so perhaps I should just stick to the filter I have and empty it out occasionally, as I can also check for sediments at the same time?
Thanks again, Gordon

[hanleyclifford]

Just for Fun

If you have a monel tank from the early 70s you just might have a bottom drain. Have you been able to see all of the underside of the fuel tank clearly?

[JOHN COOKSON]

I will run her a few more hours yet and do as the mechanic suggested- empty out the fuel filter (which does not have the water valve at the bottom) into a bucket and examine how much water and sediment I find, if any, and proceed from whatever I find at that time. For now I have ordered the new s/s sediment bowl, screen filter, bale, and seating washer for the bowl in the hope that this will be a good upgrade of a 43 yr. old engine, as I will at least have some parts which should last a very long time without worrying about corrosion from within the bowl. Do you think the Racor water separating filter would be a better way to go, as far as periodic checking by simply undoing the nut on the lower part of the housing is concerned vs. having to remove my existing filter completely to make the same check. Would only water get to the visible part of the lower chamber. If so perhaps I should just stick to the filter I have and empty it out occasionally, as I can also check for sediments at the same time?
Thanks again, Gordon

IMO you have a good middle of the road plan R\E the fuel supply.

That said I view filters as sort of back up or insurance. I would never depend on filters water separators ect to clean up dirty gasoline before it reaches the engine. If you use filters in this manner you are not attacking the problem at its source.

So anyway: If you catch a lot or water or KRAP in the filters it will be time to pump out the tank and if necessary remove the fuel tank from the boat for cleaning. We'll cross that bridge if and when we come to it.

I'm envious of your Monel tank. They're top of the line.

TRUE GRIT

[ndutton]

Monel is sweet but it doesn't matter what it looks like on the outside, it's the inside that counts.

[BadaBing]

Gordon,
Part of the tank and fuel line challange, as related to ethanol is the old varnish build up in the old tanks and the incompatibility of old rubber fuel hoses with ethanol. Both are dissolved by ethanol.

Over years of sitting old gas tanks become coated inside with a schalac or varnish from the old gasoline. (New gas clear - old gas yellow to Amber) as the new wonder gas with ethical sits in the tank it starts to strip off the varnish and deposit the small chips into the fuel. It can do the same I n the fuel lines as well.as melt.the old style hoses.

Many have found it necessary to pump out our tanks and clean them in some way to remove the sludge, crud,buggers and snot that accumulates in the bottom inch or so of the tank , below the pick up line.

[Shrek]

update on fuel issue

Hey folks !
I have been down at the beast several times since my last post and each time I go, I start my a-4, she sings ! I have never heard this engine sound so good since the day we first purchased her (the boat) in March '15. Starts with the first squeeze of the button on full choke and has a lovely fresh, smooth sound I simply cannot describe - it is music to my ears! About 2hrs run now since the fuel system issues were resolved.
My Moyer parts are here too for replacing the fuel bowl, sediment screen, washer and bale.
Does the sediment filter simply get placed over the orifice in the upper part of the fuel pump housing and get trapped in place by the washer when the bowl and bale are tightened up?
Can't seem to find any instructions, only an offsite diagram on another website, which seems to show it in this location.
Also does anyone know what the micron rating of the screen might be, or should I still install a polishing filter of 7-10 microns downstream of the bowl?

[Dave Neptune]

Shrek, yes to the washer position. It is not a very fine screen at all but it will keep chunks out.

Yes to the polishing filter ALWAYS!

That's how an A-4 should run!!

Dave Neptune

[Shrek]

fuek polishing filter

Thanks Dave Neptune for your reply.
I did not mention that I have a water separating filter upstream between the tank and the sediment bowl, would I be right in saying that the polishing filter would go between the fuel pump outlet and the carb? Dumb question of the week because I know that the finer the filter, the closer it goes to the carb inlet !
Thanks again.

[JOHN COOKSON]

.
I did not mention that I have a water separating filter upstream between the tank and the sediment bowl, would I be right in saying that the polishing filter would go between the fuel pump outlet and the carb? Dumb question of the week because I know that the finer the filter, the closer it goes to the carb inlet !

Yes, the polishing filter does go between the fuel pump and the carb.

BTW: We don't consider any question to be dumb on this forum. Feel free to ask away. You will not be belittled, or made fun of.

TRUE GRIT