12 year olds rebuild

[UsailIbail!]

My 12 y/o son managed to find an Atomic 4 for $1.00 on Craigslist. Funny thing is that it was bolted to a FREE Ericson 32-2! Wow! I had to support the kid on that one - so here we are! The trailer/crane/steel to get the whole load home has already cost me (dad) almost $3,000.00! ; ) gulp!

We pulled the motor which we'll be working on through the winter - we'll post some pics asap. He has it stripped down to the block and casings already. Unfortunately, the past owner may have fried the lower end - we had had it soaking in an oil bath for a month and it won't budge with the hand crank. This is an older 60's block with few (if any) mods.

The short story is that the previous owner purchased the hull etc. from a salvage co. (four years ago) after it had slipped its mooring in a storm. The hull took "a few tides" through it via a handful of holes. Ha!

We read Moyers Bible (every page) and saw that there is no seal on the front end of the crank. We are now convinced that there was an unhealthy amount of water in the pan... which was sucked up and cycled through the engine until as the owner says "it just quit". When we drained the oil it was emulsified grey and so thick that the firs third of it had to be helped out with a wire. Everything we can see through the inspection plates looks fairly good ie. tranny, valves, piston tops etc.
Soo... our first forum questions.

1) can the valves be pulled if we can't rotate the crank shaft?
2) he already has the head off - to do a very nice rebuild should we still pull the head bolts out to inspect/replace? I hate the thought of causing more damage than what we are looking at.
3) what sign should we look for that the cylinders are not too corroded on the outside.. where we can see the rust around them in the inspection plate. We couldn't believe the amount of crud in every corner everywhere inside and out. I think maintenance was never, ever done on this ole iron horse.

I too have never gotten in this deep on a rebuild but between the two of us we insist that we can't make it any worse!

We are having a great time and would love any help, advise or encouragement!

[hanleyclifford]

Welcome and admiration the way you have jumped into this thing - lock,stock and barrel, as it were. To answer question 1, no do not try to remove the valves until the crank is free. In fact, this engine is going down right to the bare block - the valves can be among the last things out. At this stage the key thing is to move methodically labeling each piece so that it can go back exactly where it came from if necessary. You don't have to make a decision on the head studs yet. We love pictures on this forum and the members enjoy solving problems and helping each other. Keep talking and you will see we have a lot in common. All the best and again, welcome - Hanley

[CalebD]

Welcome

'Free' or cheap boats are often like that, in that you should feel free to spend the money it will take to make everything right again.
That said, congrats on your new Ericson 32' - 2.
Atomic 4 engines are pretty hard to kill but is sounds as if someone tried to do yours in. My engine is of a similar vintage ('67) and came to me in good working condition.
Refurbishing your A4 sounds like a great winter project with your son who sounds pretty amazing by the way.
I have never done a tear down and rebuild as it seems you have in your future but you will learn a lot. There are numerous threads here that will shed light onto many of the questions you will encounter. You should be able to do a lot of the work yourselves but you may need to find a good machine shop near you for some of the things you cannot do.
Emulsified gray oil is just water and oil as you know. Multiple oil changes with cheap oil should get most of the water out of it.
Marvel Mystery Oil (MMO) is a rust inhibitng light weight oil that might be a good liquid to use for soaking the internals of your engine, crank shaft etc.
If MMO does not work some people advocate using Automatic Transmission Fluid (ATF). Then there is Power Blaster penetrating foam/oil which will attack rubber components.
I assume you have the crank handle for trying to turn the engine over? Gentle tapping may help get things moving eventually.
Letting the penetrating fluids do their job requires patience. Sometimes trying to force things can cause more problems.
Hanley Clifford says the valves can wait. In the mean time there are other systems to worry about rebuilding: water pump(s), hoses, exhaust piping, carburetor, fuel pump, tank and filters.
Then there is all the rigging for the boat when it is not under power. Whoo boy. $3K is going to seem like a bargain.
Still, I wish you the best and bet that you and your son CAN get that old A4 ticking over again.

[tony201]

welcome Usail

Take your time and don't force the crank to turn , If you can remove the valves , by all means take um out first . sometime its the valves and cam shaft that are keeping the crank from turning,
Good luck
201

[tenders]

What year/hull number is your Ericson? I have #112, built in 1969. Don't miss ericsonyachts.org, it's the Moyer Marine of the Ericson portion of your $1 purchase! Both are probably, and quite literally, the most useful things the Internet has delivered to me.

[UsailIbail!]

Thanks for the welcome...

Thanks for all of the replies!

"Tenders" - we have visited the Ericson website often and have learned how to patch the holes, replace portlights, and replace the bulkheads. The rest has been gutted and is out of the hull already. I have a new pantry and bathroom to finish on the house before my wife lets me and my son work more on the boat... that was the deal prior to us lugging the boat home in the first place. Our motor work up to this point has been presented to the Mrs. as further "loss prevention". Once the damages are understood and adequate rust preventive measures are taken, I need to finish that "honey dew" list!

I looked up the motor mount at harbor freight and will order one for Ebben (my son). Seems like a great deal and will improve the build.

Sounds like the studs for the head will wait and he can pull the pan and forward/reverse gearbox off while the rest is seized. Any tips on pulling them in addition to Moyers Bible would be helpful.

We hope to get some photos up soon. Still not sure how to judge the condition of corrosion on the outside of the cylinders. We'll get those pics up soon too.

Thanks. Ebben and Jay

[lat 64]

Free Bird

Hi.
Welcome Ebben (and Jay).

Save your money, don't get a engine stand. The A-4 does not fit well on one, and anyway, the oil pan makes a good egine stand on a sturdy table with wheels.
Spend money on a parts-cleaning tank instead.

Awsome father-and-son project, I hope mom is cool with it. The next few months will tell.
My daughter is 16 and we are slowly fixing up a '61 Chevy Apache 20 pickup.
between cello practice and Italian lessons she works cleaning the ol' truck.
I love curious young adults, they are always seem to be smarter than me.
These are the good times.

I think the guys are right, you will have to assume this motor will be a total overhaul.

Get the manual(Product No. - MANL_01_98)and study up. Oops, I see you have it
And remember, there are no lame questions—only lame answers.


Cheers,
Russ

[rigspelt]

I have a new pantry and bathroom to finish on the house before my wife lets me and my son work more on the boat... that was the deal prior to us lugging the boat home in the first place.

After years of excuses why the boats had to come first, I am now paying that piper back.

I agree on Russ' advice about the motor stand. There will be many other more practical uses for that money before the refit is done. Simple wood blocks on an old table seem to work well for A4s. Unless of course there are more motors in the future...

[UsailIbail!]

Oil pan question

Ebben here... we decided to leave the studs in the head, but it seems we have to turn the motor over to pull the oil pan off. Is it stupid to leave the studs in? Is it better not to turn the motor over?

My grandfather might buy me a motor stand, how the heck does it bolt on? It looks like it bolts to the end... I'm 12, I have no idea!

[hanleyclifford]

The trick here is to run two 2x4s parallel through the stud.s, engine upside down. Take the valves out first.

[UsailIbail!]

I don't see how we can take the valves out until the crank is out, the engine is seized.

[hanleyclifford]

Sorry, I guess I was under the impression you had freed it up. So you cannot set the engine upside down either on studs or valves. But you have to get the pan off to free the crank. Even if you took the studs out that would still leave the valves. I have actually turned an engine over under these conditions using a rather intricate layout of wood blocks but I wouldn't want to go on record as recommending it. That said...I think you can get the drift. Of course you could always replace the head (sans plugs)... still makes for an unwieldly mass of metal on the bench. Whatever you do, be careful.

[UsailIbail!]

Do you think a motor stand is a good idea???

Ebben

[hanleyclifford]

I have never used one - our brother Russ stated in a post that the A4 does not fit well on them.

[keelcooler]

Ebben, You might consider removing the three manifold studs so you can lay the motor down on that side. Vise grips or a pipe wrench should work.This will enable you to remove the pan and you can inspect the stud threads for rust. If the manifold stud threads look good with more than three rings, your head studs will most likely be ok. The a4 bell housing will not mate with a car engine motor stand. The small bolts and fly wheel housing may not take the weight of a 300lb a4.

Please keep us posted. We will be here when needed. We love photos.