removing atomic 4 from my cal 29

[lordpaul]

im removing my atomic 4 from my cal 29, question1 how will this effect the stability of the boat? question 2 whats the best outboard size to use to bush it along at a good speed

[ArtJ]

If you remove the engine, not recommended, you would need to replace
the engine with a equivalent weight so as to not affect the stability and
performance of the boat.

[hanleyclifford]

Since this is the A4 forum, I guess the question is bound to be, "...how come (you are removing the Atomic 4)?

[ndutton]

I somewhat agree with Art that removing the inboard engine will change the characteristics of the boat but where I differ is I think there's a possibility they might improve. It would be very interesting to read before and after reports from you.

As far as outboard engine size, a popular outboard for the Catalina 27 was 15 HP. The C-27 is a similar displacement boat (7500# compared to your 8000#) so I would expect the performance under power to be similar.

I also think it would be advantageous to have your new outboard on a bracket that raises the engine out of the water when not in use to prevent drag underway and corrosion the rest of the time. Such a bracket may be the limiting factor in engine size.

Will you be removing the strut and repairing the fiberglass in the area of the strut and shaft log (critical fiberglass work there)? Are you considering remote throttle and shift controls? New fuel tank (the factory tanks for the inboards were steel)? Electric start? An outboard with a charging circuit (the charging capacity will certainly be small)? How does the price of a new outboard and all the trappings compare to a Moyer rebuild? Or short block?

I haven't asked why the desire to dump the A4 , figure you have your reasons but I'm still curious.

[ArtJ]

I still think that it is a vital safety issue to check with Cal to see what the
effect would be on stability and resulting safety.
If there was a factory
version with a outboard,(doubtful) see how it differed from the atomic 4
version.

There may also be coast guard regulations and inspections involved as
you will be making a fundamental change in the vessel's design. You
may also void any marine insurance policy.

Why not leave the engine in place, but just not run it?

[Laker]

It sounds as though you are about to spend a significant amount of money and that the value of your boat may decrease.

The "ballast" value of your inboard will be replaced , at least in part , by your outboard , but the aft placement of the weight of the outboard will be a detriment to balance and performance.

If you really want to do this , install the outboard and go sailing.

Be sure to find a home for your Atomic 4. Plenty of help will be found here.

[ndutton]

There are examples of the conversion you're considering out there. Maybe you can contact them for more input.

Check out post #5 at

http://www.sailnet.com/forums/cal/45451-checking-out-cal-29-advice-needed.html

It's also interesting that the original standard Cal 29 was built for an outboard, the inboard was optional. Excerpt from the owners manual found at
http://pages.sssnet.com/go2erie/cal29.htm,

1. STANDARD OUTBOARD MOTOR Before going below, we should look at the standard outboard motor installation. First remove the "Transom Door" and stow it below. Now take the outboard from its stowage in the port cockpit seat locker and mount on the transom. Once mounted, the outboard may be tipped up, out of the water, for sailing. Editor's note: It's interesting to note that an outboard engine was the standard engine for this 29 foot sailboat. Not many 29 footers come with an outboard this day and age. Dan

2. OPTIONAL INBOARD ENGINE Complete inspectional access to the engine may be gained by lifting the main companionway step, removing the bulkhead and also by a sliding hatch in the port quarter berth. Operation procedures are well covered in the enclosed manual, Several important points should be re-emphasized,

And finally, you might want to contact this guy selling his dad's outboard powered Cal 29 to discuss the plusses and minuses:

http://losangeles.craigslist.org/wst/boa/2037604423.html

Here's a bit of worthless trivia:

I worked at Jensen Marine and in my position, had the good fortune to meet and talk with Bill Lapworth, designer of the entire Cal line. A few of us 'young squires' posed this question to him: with Cal boats sailing all over the world, why does every single one of your designs have the galley on the starboard side (note that galleys weigh considerably more than berths)?

His answer was quick, simple and perfectly logical - because it's a starboard tack to Catalina!

[ArtJ]

Great posting Neil

You certainly have addressed my concerns

Regards

Art

[ndutton]

I didn't mean to discount your concerns Art. I felt they were valid, worthy of further investigation.

When I worked at Jensen, there were no outboard configuration 29's built (1973 - 1975) and until I stumbled across that owners manual, didn't realize there ever were. 29 feet is a lot of boat to push with an outboard. Factor in the charging limitations and I can't say I'd ever consider it.

As Laker mentioned, I wanted to emphasize the potential cost of outboard conversion compared to repairing/replacing the A4, likely a wash and I would think the resultant boat value would tip the scales in favor of keeping the inboard.

This Cal 29 talk had me reminiscing about the era. I appreciate that I was blessed to be working in an industry where I absolutely loved going to work every day. It was a great time in my life and I cherish the memories. Besides meeting Bill Lapworth and Robert Perry (Islander designer), I met Gregory Peck when he selected a Ranger 23 to make the movie Dove, the story of Robin Lee Graham's circumnavigation. I met Buddy Ebsen, who I understood was considering buying Capital Yachts while I was there. Turns out he was a big multihull guy so the sale never happened. Met Vicki Lawrence and her husband when they bought their Freeport 41 (Islander again). And so on, plenty of stories.

Southern California at the time was the fiberglass sailboat building capitol of the world and I was excited to be part of it.

[lordpaul]

the reason for taking out the atomic 4 is that on the left side of the engine as you look at it there is a t section one hose goes to the water pump and the other end goes into the top of the engine and the other t part is screwed into the side of the engine. while replacing a hose on the t section , the t section fell off the side of the engine so now i have a hole in the sideit must have been repaired some years ago with a putty. i seem to be spending plenty of cash repairing the engine and replacing parts. im off on a trip next year down the west coast to south america do i take the chance of the atomic 4 breaking down, or go the safe route of getting an outboard for the sum of $3500. in the manual for my cal29 it gives you info on the workings on the atomic 4 and an outboard for a cal 29 so i believe the cal 29 was fitted out with an outboard or a atomic 4. if i leave the atomic in postion and get an outboard wont this also make the boat unstable? by the way the engine was working great i replaced all the gauges new stater, and replaced all the eletrics. then a few weeks ago the water pump stoped working, this is when i found the hole in the side of the engine when the t junction fell off. my thoughts are remove the engine use the space for storage.and get a outboard

[ndutton]

Where are you located? Wanna sell that engine?

[Mark S]

do i take the chance of the atomic 4 breaking down, or go the safe route of getting an outboard for the sum of $3500.

$3,500 sounds like amply sufficient capital to make whatever repairs your A4 needs short of a new block.

Mark

[hanleyclifford]

Aye, bring me your A4 and the $3500--We'll make it sing.

[sastanley]

I have a buddy that had a "big" outboard bracket mounted on his J/29 to hold a 9.9 4-stroke motor for deliveries. It was a BIG, HEAVY motor, but it was much nicer doing deliveries with the 9.9 Yamaha than the 3.5hp 2-stroke racing motor.

In theory, removing the 315 lbs. Atomic 4 will improve sailing performance, but then you are adding 75-100# in the transom for an outboard, not including the work Neil detailed above.

You might be able to repair the A-4 for less than you think. Inboards are much more reliable & have more power overall than an outboard (IMO).

All the west coast guys already have dibs on that motor, so 'oh well' for me.. if you were on the east coast, I'd fire up my old Cherokee and do a weekend road trip to 'take it off your hands'.

[ArtJ]

The fitting you describe that is leaking/ fell off can be easily fixed
by removing the side plate. I would make sure and have a couple
of the Moyer side plate repair kits handy as a couple of bolts may
break off. You can then either replace the entire side plate with
a new one from moyer, or replace just the fitting.

Regards