Delco Alt/internal Voltage Regulator poor output

[JackConnick]

As I've said repeatedly. All connections are fine. The wire is fine. A .2 voltage loss is pretty negligible between the alt and battery.

It just isn't putting out amps after very long.

It's pretty old, so I've gotten my use out of it.

I talked to a couple of shops and they thought it was the voltage regulator. It's not worth screwing with.

The marine electric guy I talked to said that the 63 amp model was right from my engine and battery bank. I wasn't going to get anything much more out of the 105 and it actually wouldn't work as well.

Yeah, sure the Balmar setup is sweet. I saw a new set being sold off for $500 on EBay yesterday, but just couldn't justify the $$ right now. I just got through buying 2 new sails and installing an icebox conversion unit.

If I get a couple of seasons out of this alternator I should be fine. Most of the time we're only out a couple of days from the dock and my 20 amp Mastervolt throws the coals to the batteries great.

I'll report back what I get with the new alternator once installed.

Jack

[edwardc]

Do you have solar or a wind gen? These can interact with the alternator's regulator and cause it to stop charging too soon, unless the whole system is carefully "tuned". 1/10s of a volt count! (dont ask me how I know this)

[joe_db]

Do you have solar or a wind gen? These can interact with the alternator's regulator and cause it to stop charging too soon, unless the whole system is carefully "tuned". 1/10s of a volt count! (dont ask me how I know this)

Oh yeah - forgot - the OTHER charging sources have to be OFF for any of these tests to work. The more sophisticated ones will all trigger each other into float.

[JackConnick]

No other sources. Shore charger was off.

[JackConnick]

Well, just to finish up this thread. I bought and installed a new Delco 10si ignition-protected "marine" alternator and changed the belt for drill. It has a slightly smaller pulley on it, I think 2.25". The old one was like 2.625"

The voltage output is much better at 14.5 volts (at the battery), and the amp output starts out better, but again quickly falls off after 1/2 hour or so. I'm guessing it might be heat related, but I run the blower all the time the engine is on and it really doesn't get that hot. It's just not able to deal with deep cycle batteries.

So definitely an improvement, but a Balmar setup is in my future, maybe next season. I'll keep my eye out on EBay.

Thanks for the suggestions,
Jack

[ndutton]

The voltage output is much better at 14.5 volts (at the battery), and the amp output starts out better, but again quickly falls off after 1/2 hour or so. I'm guessing it might be heat related, but I run the blower all the time the engine is on and it really doesn't get that hot. It's just not able to deal with deep cycle batteries.

Please reread my post (#3 in this thread) from almost two weeks ago. I didn't say it then as bluntly as I'm saying it now but I think the only problem here is your expectation vs. reality. You replaced the alternator and other than higher output voltage nothing has changed.

BTW, if you have electronic ignition your alternator output voltage might be a little aggressive risking coil damage. You might consider checking the ignition system current at the new voltage.

[joe_db]

Well, just to finish up this thread. I bought and installed a new Delco 10si ignition-protected "marine" alternator and changed the belt for drill. It has a slightly smaller pulley on it, I think 2.25". The old one was like 2.625"

The voltage output is much better at 14.5 volts (at the battery), and the amp output starts out better, but again quickly falls off after 1/2 hour or so. I'm guessing it might be heat related, but I run the blower all the time the engine is on and it really doesn't get that hot. It's just not able to deal with deep cycle batteries.

So definitely an improvement, but a Balmar setup is in my future, maybe next season. I'll keep my eye out on EBay.

Thanks for the suggestions,
Jack

When the amps taper off, what is the voltage at the battery? If it is pretty close to 14.5 volts, what you are seeing is what happens when a battery starts filling back up. If the voltage is falling, the alternator might be overheating. I am betting on the former.

[JackConnick]

Yes, it stays at 14.5v, but the amps fall off quite a bit.

Jack

[ronstory]

As Neil and Joe say, that's normal. Once you got the voltage back to where is needs to be for FLA batteries (14.4V+), you are now seeing the normal behavior.

Does you amp meter map closely to the amps in vs. the amps out?

[joe_db]

You are now seeing the entire reason the smart regulator, aka 3 stage regulator, and high output alternators got invented and also why people buy gels, AGMs, and Lithium batteries. Those batteries have higher acceptance - aka they charge faster - than FLA.
If I set my regulator to the FLA settings, it would charge at 14.8 volts and then back off to 13.8 (13.5?? maybe) when the battery was near full. My gel batteries would be wrecked by those voltages, my bulk/absorption voltage is 14.2.
Be warned there are a lot of $$$ to spent in this area and the A4 will negate much of what you are trying to do. My "Balmar" alternator is actually quite similar to the 55 amp Motorola that comes on many A4s. It has nice white paint and is set up for external regulation, which is nice, but nothing defeats the laws of physics. Within the space and pulley ratio constraints of an A4, you are getting about 40-50 amps. Period.
I would not have bought the Balmar version at list price, I can spray paint a Motorola white and mod it for external regulation in about 5 minutes. I got mine for about $60 on FleaBay

[ndutton]

Be warned there are a lot of $$$ to spent in this area and the A4 will negate much of what you are trying to do

Truer words were never spoken. There is a popular marine electrician on the internet who in the past has advised installing the latest and greatest alternator system to the tune of over $3000.00 and admonishing his readers that they are foolish if they don't. Remember, all you're doing is charging a battery. Don't lose sight of that.

Here is a little reading for you:

http://www.moyermarineforum.com/forums/showthread.php?p=103471

[JackConnick]

Xantrex voltage regulator

I've been offered a old (new stock) Xantrex Multistage Regulator at a very good price. It's pretty much a ARS-4, in fact I think they are made by the same people. It's a discontinued product, not sure i can find the battery and alt. temperature sensors for it.

I guess I would need the field wire out from the alternator. Not sure how to do that. The rest of the connections are fairly easy, although I see most of the regulators use some sort of plug on the back of the alternator. I suppose I could take it into the shop and have him modify it.

Looking at the Flooded battery program, it bulk outputs to 14.6v for 36 mins, then drops to acceptance for a short time, then float. I know you can program it differently.

But looking at that program and your comments above, it seems like the alternator I have is doing that. But most likely just not holding the bulk charge up long enough.

I do have a magnetic ignition, and I installed a MM high output coil a while back and moved it off the engine which solved all my coil overheating issues. I want this to be relatively trouble-free and not cook my ignition, batteries or alternator!

We mostly are away for long weekends, take a 2 week cruise in the summer. I have a great new MasterVolt 20 amp charger that's on while the boat is at dock.

Is it worth the trouble to figure out the external regulator?

Jack

[JackConnick]

I found a great overview in this article:

https://forums.sailboatowners.com/threads/musings-regarding-external-voltage-regulation.125392/

Jack

[joe_db]

I've been offered a old (new stock) Xantrex Multistage Regulator at a very good price. It's pretty much a ARS-4, in fact I think they are made by the same people. It's a discontinued product, not sure i can find the battery and alt. temperature sensors for it.

I guess I would need the field wire out from the alternator. Not sure how to do that. The rest of the connections are fairly easy, although I see most of the regulators use some sort of plug on the back of the alternator. I suppose I could take it into the shop and have him modify it.

Looking at the Flooded battery program, it bulk outputs to 14.6v for 36 mins, then drops to acceptance for a short time, then float. I know you can program it differently.

But looking at that program and your comments above, it seems like the alternator I have is doing that. But most likely just not holding the bulk charge up long enough.

I do have a magnetic ignition, and I installed a MM high output coil a while back and moved it off the engine which solved all my coil overheating issues. I want this to be relatively trouble-free and not cook my ignition, batteries or alternator!

We mostly are away for long weekends, take a 2 week cruise in the summer. I have a great new MasterVolt 20 amp charger that's on while the boat is at dock.

Is it worth the trouble to figure out the external regulator?

Jack

I thought your alternator was holding a steady 14.5 volts?

[JackConnick]

It seemed like it, but I think I need to do more testing over a longer time. Running it at the dock doesn't really give the best idea.

Jack