engine die after 45 minutes or one hour

[morphios67]

Hi, guys I just get a cal 30,1968 with the atomic 4 (this is my first sailboat, i been had a power boats all my life but now I want ride with out engine noise) this is the deal, the previous owner left the engine with out (gas thanks god!!) but the engine was like that for like 2 years so first I check all the cooling system and gas lines, and change the sparks plugs, add only 2 gallons of gas then I star her she was running for like 30 minutes, then star to over heating about 195 so i flush back the cooling system then she keeps 160, (I Clean the haul one week before I begging to work with her engine) I take her out in little test she was performing fine for like 40 minutes, the only thing I notice was some like vibration in the engine by the shaft, I take her to the gas station and poor new marine gas with stabilizer , a soonest we left the gas station and try to engage the forward gear the engine sound like little starving, then die, but she star right way and keeps running, only after engage the forward gear she die,... So I take the dinghy and drive her back to the marina ( I feel a little shamed, coze i have to do that to her) any way back to the marina, I clean the propeller and poor gum out treatment in to the gas tank, and she star fine like kitty, after warm her up, for like 10 minutes, engage forward and she was running fine for like 40 minutes I play with forward, neutral and reverse, she was fine, working about 160, but then she star to do like the other day just die after engage forward or reverse but in neutral she is perfect and smooth...... i havent take apart the carburetor that is what every body think, I just want hear some ideas before take her apart, please let me now and thank you guys!!

[Mo]

One of the first things you should do is a compression test. Certainly could be fuel but I have my suspicions that it may also be a coil issue. I will attach a thread for you to read. Sometimes it can be difficult to isolate a problem. A guy I know had a problem he thought was transmission trouble...I thought it might be a fuel issue. Turns out we both were wrong...it was the coil. I never did see the engine until well after the problem occurred so it was difficult to know it was the coil...running for 40 minutes sure sounds like a coil issue though...and he felt vibration so bad he thought the gear box was broken.

http://www.moyermarine.com//forums/showthread.php?t=7483&highlight=coil

[Sony2000]

I would want to know what the fuel looks like inside the float of the carb. There is a drain for the float. Look for anything other than gasoline.
This maybe your sole problem.

[sastanley]

morphios, welcome.

Since this boat is new to you, you are going to need to systematically troubleshoot all of the main areas of the engine until you find something wrong.

The three things you need to make this engine run:
1. Compression
2. (Clean) Fuel
3. Spark

I feel your pain with the towing..I had to accept one a couple weeks ago.

1. A compression test is pretty easy..do you have a compression gauge? They are relatively cheap from teh local Auto Boutique (i.e. AutoZone) - Since the engine runs for a while, one would suspect your compression is OK at this point.

2. Fuel - I agree with Sony that you need to know (or report if you already know) the condition of the fuel tank prior to putting fuel in it. Even an empty tank could be filled with crud and other junk that is now swashing around in the new fuel. You can remove the drain plug (1/2" wrench) off the back of the carb and pump some fuel into a container and see how it looks. That will tell us the condition of fuel and what, if anything we may need to help you with related to that.

3. Spark - this is usually the toughest (most frustrating) to troubleshoot. Do you have points or Electronic Ignition? There is extensive discussion about switching to EI and then having trouble with coils after 45-60 minutes of running. Throwing a $50 coil at it is not the solution though..I'll wait to go down that rabbit hole until we get more data from you. If you have points, we will need to take a different approach.

Other issues - vibration.
Could be:
1. a cylinder or two misfiring during the shutdown.
2. mis-aligned prop shaft..may be enough to stall the engine in gear at idle.
3. Loose motor mount(s) if you have them.
Do you have good access to the shaft & stuffing box? Visually check for a wobbling stuffing box when running..may indicate mis-alignment.

Sorry to ask so many questions..the intention is to help narrow down the cause of your problems and help isolate the issue.

[Mo]

After reading your post again and remembering a few conversations talking to Joe Miller it all sounds eerily similar to what he experienced. I'm leaning towards a coil issue. He put a coil with 3.7 ohm resistor on his as well as a 1.8 ohm external resistor....has worked fine for hours on end since that time.

[sastanley]

Mo, I am leaning in the same direction, but I am waiting to get more info back from the OP before throwing it out there.

[morphios67]

thanks guys!!

First I will like thanks to all you guys for the help and support to the new guys ( like me : ) that is really cool from you guys, already order on new marine coil and buy one of those glass universal gas filters (with 3 spare filters) and also get a can of clean-r-carb, I will purge the carburetor to see the condition for the gas, now can I clean the carburetor wile the engine is running? i use to do that with my mercruiser engines, but I dont know how sensible is the atomic, so could you guys tell me about it? I want see the propel coze the diver who clean the hull, told me was with worms and shells growing, so he clean it, but is a fold able propel and if is not open all way, may make the vibration, so tomorrow I will do the carb and gas line and a soonest I get the coil, I will change it, and get the gauge for the compression to see how is it, other thing I notice, the propel some times take like 5 seconds the star displace the water so i think may be is not complete free, but since we get a 12' grate white shark in one of the near marinas, (mother's beach in long beach ca) feel like i want dive when the sun light is at noon, ( i dont know if they dont like the light but. I think I will be able to see a little farer) so thanks again, I will check all the aspects from your advices and will let you know about how is the performance of my engine,.

[Mo]

Compression test first for sure; spraying carb cleaner in the carb may not help but it is not hard to remove and take apart and clean...that would be the better option.

As for the coil...if you put a new coil on electronic ignition you WILL need to put an external resistor as well or the coil may not last long.

Good luck with it.

[ndutton]

As for the coil...if you put a new coil on electronic ignition you WILL need to put an external resistor as well or the coil may not last long.

This is possible, maybe even likely but not necessarily. It depends on 4 factors that work in harmony:

• Presence of electronic ignition
• Alternator output at cruising RPM
• Ignition system wiring voltage drop
• Internal coil resistance.

Only after these values are known can an accurate determination be made regarding supplemental resistance. In fact, in my case as soon as practical I'll be replacing my 3.3Ω coil and 0.885Ω resistor with a new 4.3Ω coil and eliminate the resistor. It's worth it to me to eliminate 2 unnecessary connections (at the resistor) in the ignition circuit. Every connection is a potential failure point.

Back to the original post, given the engine and installation is 45 years old and has been sitting for years I'd get aggressive and perform a number of repairs/replacements on principle alone.

• Add a squirt of Marvel Mystery Oil to each cylinder via the spark plug hole
• As Mo said, compression check
• Cooling system pressure test at FIVE PSI, no more

If those two tests are successful

• Oil change
• Check the integrity of the exhaust hot section. Replace if there's ANY doubt
• Pump out the fuel tank completely
• Depending on the condition of the old fuel, clean or replace the fuel tank. Replacement might be easier
• Replace all fuel hoses including the big tank fill hose with A1-15 alcohol rated hose
• Check the tank vent fitting for blockage due to insects
• Replace the deck fill plate O-ring
• Add fresh fuel. The previous addition of fresh fuel was in a tank with old fuel already present. What was Shawn's Dad's saying? Adding a gallon of good fuel to 5 gallons of bad fuel gives you 6 gallons of bad fuel
• Rebuild the carb
• Rebuild or replace the fuel pump
• Replace the fuel filter element
• Replace the spark plugs
• Replace the spark plug wires
• Inspect every wire and electrical connection in the wiring harness. At a minimum tighten ALL connections at both the engine and instrument panel, battery cables too

Once that's all done and the engine is running well,

• Replace the distributor cap and rotor
• Lubricate the advance weights and check the return spring integrity
• Replace the points and condenser if so equipped. If electronic ignition, ignore this step but note the coil resistance caution above
• If raw water cooled, perform an acid flush
• Replace the water pump impeller
• Replace the stuffing box packing flax
• Lubricate the Bowden cable for the choke
• Check the shift and throttle cables for smooth operation. No-go = replace

Remember, the goal is a reliable propulsion system. You'll be doing all this sooner or later, why not sooner?

[Mo]

Good post Neil!!

[dvd]

Morphios,

Those glass fuel filters should not be on your boat as they are not coast guard approved. Also, as stated earlier in this thread get a coil from ken at moyer marine so you don't continue having problems with resistance/ohms etc.

dvd

[Al Schober]

Easy check that no one's mentioned yet - clogged fuel tank vent. Take the cap off the fuel fill when it starts to die and see what happens.

[morphios67]

she is back!!

Guys, I change the fuel pump coze I notice with the glass filter is not flow strong in off to keep the carburetor working (i will see how works that filter and if is give me any problem I will take it off,) is nice when you can see if is gas or not, going on, well this dint fix my problem so when I was checking the points just to be 100% i have the right coil, so is a points distributor and my coil is with a resistor integrated, so according with what i read I have to have the coil with the external resistor, (that what i get) so I change the points and condenser, after I calibrate it, the engine was running perfect no more vibrations and keep working when i change the gear with out do noting like before so I change the spark plugs, the pump, and the points and condenser now is working perfect, i will change the impeller next week (only to be safe,) i will take her out tomorrow in a test trip, I will let you know guys about how she perform, thank you guys for the advices and support

[Mo]

Shouldn't need an external resistor with points and condenser...however, if the engine is running fine with one something must be in the right zone. Good to hear you are back in business with that engine. So, just to be clear, what was the cure for your engine...did you notice. Sometimes when we change out multiple components we never really know what the cause of the failure was.

[morphios67]

it was the points and condenser..... My only question is if I want change the coil the resistor is going in the negative from the coil at the condenser? coze firs i did in the positive so I think that blow the condenser and that is way I change it, good thing it is every time change one part, i test the engine thats why I know it was the points and condenser and maybe the new fuel pump make it works better, something I want share with you guys may help in the future, points and condenser from the atomic 4 later then 67 ( the big distributor) match with the chevrolet c10-1970 is exactly the seem thing, the only difference is the price, chevrolet= $ 16.00 and the marine box (seem parts) = 65.00 dollars at that price already have two extra sets in my emergency box parts,
Thanks again for the help and support
Morphios