Flooding, dying, and spraying

[McMikeJr]

I'm going to apologize up front, this is going to be one of THOSE emails. I'm not sure about my engine configuration but I'm willing to make multiple trips.

two issues:

1. Engine is running VERY rich. Took 'er out yesterday and had multiple problems. Fired right up first thing in the morning. Flooded when I let the idle get too low (under 1000-1200 rpm) and wouldn't start easily. Finally got going and she died again as I was pulling up to a dock to wait on a bridge, same results. Helluva time getting started, stench of fuel and fuel in discharge water. One I DID get started she died as soon as put the xmission in gear. Same deal again, only this time I was able to get in gear without killing the engine because I had somebody steer while I milked the tranny / throttle levers to get going. We made it all the way back to the dock before she died again while slowing. We never got 'er started again.

2. See pic attached. That's water coming out of the side of the engine. It's coming from a hairline crack, NOT from the bolt. This is on the stbd side of the engine, forward of and below the alternator, which can be seen in the background. I apologize for the photo quality, my cell was the only camera available.

I was planning to pull the engine this winter to do some much needed corrosion control, looks like the timeline on that may change, huh?

Any help is appreciated, of course!

Mike

[roadnsky]

two issues:

1. Engine is running VERY rich. Took 'er out yesterday and had multiple problems. Fired right up first thing in the morning. Flooded when I let the idle get too low (under 1000-1200 rpm) and wouldn't start easily. Finally got going and she died again as I was pulling up to a dock to wait on a bridge, same results. Helluva time getting started, stench of fuel and fuel in discharge water. One I DID get started she died as soon as put the xmission in gear. Same deal again, only this time I was able to get in gear without killing the engine because I had somebody steer while I milked the tranny / throttle levers to get going. We made it all the way back to the dock before she died again while slowing. We never got 'er started again.

2. See pic attached. That's water coming out of the side of the engine. It's coming from a hairline crack, NOT from the bolt. This is on the stbd side of the engine, forward of and below the alternator, which can be seen in the background. I apologize for the photo quality, my cell was the only camera available.

I was planning to pull the engine this winter to do some much needed corrosion control, looks like the timeline on that may change, huh?

Mike-
As you said there are 2 very separate issues going on...

The most urgent is the water "spray". It's coming from your WATER JACKET SIDE PLATE. (See attached pic)
You're gonna need to fix that before running the engine very much unless it's absolutely necessary.
The good news is that you can replace that part pretty easily.
Look in the Online Store section of this site under Overhaul Parts/Water Jacket or just call Ken and you can get a replacement.
I do agree your timeline might need to move up if this is an indicator of possibly other corrosion elsewhere on the engine.

As far as the carb issue...
When is the last time the carb was rebuilt?
There are a number of things to check and test, but they will branch off of the answer to that question.

No need to apologize. We're all here for each other and some know more than others about certain things. Knowledge is our resource.
Keep posting with symptoms and questions and with some time and labor and love, you'll have her running like you won't believe!

[rigspelt]

Just some initial thoughts from a fellow amateur.

I don't like the smell of gas. Check for leaks around the carb initially, and then follow the fuel distribution system back looking for leaks. Maybe non-start cranking just injected fuel into the carb throat, but check for leaks.

Based on your description, I think I'd be wondering about a fuel distribution problem first, I think, like a plugged fuel filter or dirty carb. But it could be air, gas or spark supply.

If there was a lot of non-start cranking, check that seawater did not back-flood the cylinders from the exhaust through the manifold. Remove the spark plugs to see. #4 and #3 are usually first to get wet that way, if it happened.

The water leak in the photo is from the side plate that covers an access port to the cooling passages in that side of the block. Presumably that picture was taken when the engine was running and the coolant was under some pressure? It appears that the side plate has corroded through.

Consider that seawater (I presume this is a raw-water cooled engine in seawater?) may have sprayed onto electrical connections in the ignition system, such as the starter solenoid, starter and alternator, and maybe even the coil (although it is higher and aft).

Careful taking off the side plate: I think it is OK to use a good penetrating oil on those bolts for a day or two before trying them, and then use a good-fitting wrench. Twist slowly: they are known to break. Broken studs can be removed and replaced with a stud repair kit from MMI (been there, done that with the engine in the boat -- would have been much easier on a workbench).

[keelcooler]

Mike,You need a new water jacket side plate cover. I have an extra with the loose alternator support bracket. I will be glad to send it to you if you supply me your address.

Sounds like low speed jet carb problem. You may need to rebuild. If flooding the float seat may need reworking. Make sure you clean up the fuel system. From the tank on down line. New gas and filters as needed.

[Mark S]

Is this an early or late model A4? I don't see the T fitting or the bypass hose in the photo.

Mark

[roadnsky]

Is this an early or late model A4? I don't see the T fitting or the bypass hose in the photo.

Actually I think I can see the bypass hose (the black with brown speckled 'tube') just to the right of the alternator.
(It's just really corroded so it looks like it's part of the engine block)
You can also just see the bottom of the thermostat housing just to the right of the hose. (The curved part of the engine)
I have a high rez monitor so I have an unfair advantage.

Also, his boat is an '81 so it's unlikely he'd have an Early.
Mike, let us know for sure if you would please.
It will make a difference in which Water Jacket Side Plate you need as well as dealing with the carb/fuel issue.

[Mark S]

Okay, I can see how that's the bypass hose. It's coloration threw me off, but in looking at it again, what else could it be?

Mark

[roadnsky]

Like I said, I had an unfair technological advantage...

[67c&ccorv]

Looking at the exterior corrosion on this particular motor is giving me the willys about what it is like inside!

[MikeB.330]

you may also want to add a stud kit for the water jacket cover plate. The lower bolt on the plate looks like it's rusted away to a nub..

[McMikeJr]

You guys are awesome!

Thanks to all for the sage advice. It is definately a later model, the oil cap is on the front.

The engine is the only part of this boat I HAVEN'T taken apart and dealt with. I was planning on waiting until winter to rebuild, but it looks like this just became the fall project. I got an email from Don Moyer over the weekend (on a SUNDAY!), it looks like I may have the experts take a look at the engine and see what's needed. As y'all pointed out, the amount of rust alone is enough to cause concern. With the engine out that'll give me some time to get some work done in areas I can't normally get to.

We'll see what the good folks in MD have to say...

Thanks!
Mike

[sastanley]

Mike,
I did a LOT of the type of work you plan to do with the motor in the boat. Granted my C-30 is a little different configuration than yours, but what I did was take the components off (in various order) and took them home to work on them, then brought them back to the boat to re-assemble onto the motor.

To get to that sideplate, you'll need to remove the alternator/bracket & raw water hoses on that side of the motor anyway, which will then open up the access quite a bit. Although the starter is not directly in the way, it is only a couple of wires and two bolts, again, improving access. As someone else noted, it looks like the bolts on the sideplate are likely shot. You can get heavier duty replacement bolts with the side plate from Moyer, but I would take the motor apart first, to see if you need to replace any bolts with the special repair studs due to block corrosion at the bolt site. This is an unknown until the plate is off..might as well make one big list for Ken at the Moyer parts dept.

Ditto with the carb..may just need a thorough cleaning and the only parts are gaskets (mine in this case), but I would recommend you remove it and disassemble prior to ordering parts so you know what you need.

Good Luck..& remember, now is the best sailing time in the Chesapeake, so the motor is needed less..I realize in your general area that may not be an option (in the ICW down there maybe, i.e, waiting for bridges!)

[rigspelt]

I did what Shawn did (left the block/head/transmission in the boat and refitted everything short of those), but only after checking that there was no obvious reason to pull the engine and do a major overhaul. That's the hardest decision to make, I think.