Semi-Annual Vinegar Flush and other question

[Mo]

Try something rusty in vinegar.

Guys.
I don't think vinegar is of much value unless it is left for weeks on end. I had an old rusting crank handle for my A4 and put it in vinegar for a while. Although the vinegar turned rust colored it took 2 weeks before any "credible" rust came off it. The handle still had to be wire brushed as well. As a check, put a piece of rusted metal in a container and see how long it takes. For us to be thinking some appreciable benefit from vinegar as a flush we might need to keep with the muriatic acid.

[joe_db]

My old engine would gradually get warmer and warmer until it was running over 200 degrees. I would put out a bucket of vineager and run the exhaust into it too so the vineager was constantly recycling and let it run for half an hour. That seemd to reduce the running temp back down for a few months or so.
I do the flush now with the new engine before I put in antifreeze for the winter. The new engine runs cool anyway, but I figure it can't hurt. I never thought I was disolving RUST this way, but salt deposits, mud, goo, and jellyfish remnants.

[sastanley]

Rbyham,

You can get gallon jugs at Wal-mart if it is of the "super" variety.

I can get 2 gallon jugs at BJ's (Cosco, Sam's, etc.).

As Mo noted, I think that when 'choosing' between a vinegar flush or a muratic acid flush, you should ask yourself what you are trying to achieve. If I got my engine water jacket all cleaned out & spiffy, I'd use vinegar periodically to keep it that way. But if I hadn't done anything in a while, I'd get it cleaned with muratic & then 'maintain' the cleanliness with vinegar. In my experience, vinegar won't break down the dark, thick sludge that accumulates in the bottom of an engine's water jacket cooled by brackish/salt water.

[ndutton]

Too much of a good thing

Also consider the stronger muriatic acid eats away at the metal. If we follow Don's recommended dilution and soak time the erosion is not too much but know that a regular routine of muriatic acid flushes will take their toll over years. The first flush I did included rusticles spitting out the exhaust, clearly not 100% organic goo. The second and last flush, right before converting to FWC and following a strict regimen of fresh water flushes after each use since the first acid flush, was rusticle free.

[Dave Neptune]

Vinegar~acid

Vinegar will eventually get most of the rust however the acid will attack it in minutes. Acid is the best for getting the rust cleared out, however not often necessary.
In a raw water engine it is not just the rust that attaches inside the block and passages, it is a calcification of all the lil critters bodies and the other stuff in the water as well as the salts if in salt water. In most cases if you do a vinegar "SOAK" and let it sit for a week or so it breaks down the organic deposits and releases a good deal of the rust with it. If a vinegar "SOAK" does not help flow and temps it's then time for the acid.

Raw water cooled A-4 going on 44th year.

IMHO
Dave Neptune

[joe_db]

Do you think a soak beats 30-60 minutes of running with the vineager recirculating?

Vinegar will eventually get most of the rust however the acid will attack it in minutes. Acid is the best for getting the rust cleared out, however not often necessary.
In a raw water engine it is not just the rust that attaches inside the block and passages, it is a calcification of all the lil critters bodies and the other stuff in the water as well as the salts if in salt water. In most cases if you do a vinegar "SOAK" and let it sit for a week or so it breaks down the organic deposits and releases a good deal of the rust with it. If a vinegar "SOAK" does not help flow and temps it's then time for the acid.

Raw water cooled A-4 going on 44th year.

IMHO
Dave Neptune

[Dave Neptune]

Heat helps

Joe, yes I do think the soak does work better. The added temp of the engine running helps too. When I do mine I start the engine 3 or 4 times while the vinegar sits in the block. I just keep the pump out of the equation. I run the engine until I see around 150 then shut it down, no "vinegar" circulating though.

Dave Neptune

[joe_db]

I am not using a seperate pump - I just run the exhaust hose into the same bucket the intake hose is in and the vinegar goes around and around as the engine runs.

Joe, yes I do think the soak does work better. The added temp of the engine running helps too. When I do mine I start the engine 3 or 4 times while the vinegar sits in the block. I just keep the pump out of the equation. I run the engine until I see around 150 then shut it down, no "vinegar" circulating though.

Dave Neptune

[Dave Neptune]

Me too, sorta

Joe, that is the same way I do my "acid flushes". However I use a centrifugal bronze pump from work that is OK with the acid and I do it with a warmed running engine. It is amazing how much krap dissolves in the acid in just a couple of minutes.

Dave Neptune

[roadnsky]

I agree with the suggestions from Don...

I did an acid flush when I first got the boat and had overheat symptoms.
Since then I've done a vinegar flush every other year and it keeps "the plumbing nice and clean"

In addition, I suggest also doing the PRESSURE FLUSH" to do the full colon blow.

http://www.moyermarine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=127&highlight=pressure+flush

And, as Dave and Joe discussed, I run the engine to get the solution warm.

[Rbyham]

Thanks all... As I said my A4 runs great. I am just looking to do a basic maintenence cleaning. This makes me hesitant to try acid. I am plumbed with separate intake line and can put it and exhaust line in a 5gal bucket to circulate. So I think I will go with vinegar soak and see where I end up. Acid just sounds a bit risky for a RWC whose history I do not know but which runs perfect. Guess i have had one too many self-inflicted breakages happen as I was trying to make something that is 1966 "good" be perfect. :-) I am trying to learn the lesson that less can be more. Will report back. Thanks for tip on vinegar gallon sized.

[joe_db]

BTW - Do not forget the vinegar flush for the head. They too clog up with calcium type deposits. If you forget it long enough the hoses will be like cast concrete and you have a nasty job getting them out.

[sastanley]

rbyham,

That sure sounds like a good approach to me. If the vinegar flush performs to your satisfaction then we've accomplished the goal!