Morgan With A4

[oceanwatersailor]

I have posted before but could not locate the thread but I have a Morgan 33 with the A4. I am a new owner and having engine problems.

Her are some details about the engine/boat:

1. Atomic 4 model 5101
2. SN# 200923
3. Morgan custom 33ft 1969


Problems found:

1. Gas tank had gas sitting for long time and is gunked up.
2. Water in oil with that grayish oooz.
3.Engine will fire now that I cleaned points and replaced plugs.
4. Engine starts hard and runs for 15 seconds then it produces a large noise and shutter the boat and dies.


I have cleaned the fuel pump and using a 6gal portable fuel tank for a short term replacement until I get a new tank or clean it.

I have removed the gray sludge twice now and still seeing water in oil but it does not run long to get heated up enough. I kind of think it is trying to turn the prop when it makes that noise then dies. I have been reading the posts on water in oil and I have to say I am some what relieved it could not be a major issue.

Does the transmission/gearbox suppose to have oil in it?
When it is in neutral should the prop spin freely?
Would it start in anything other than neutral?
Anyone have a stuffing box drive shaft refurbish write up?

Always glad this place is here and thank you in advance for your replies!

[ndutton]

Have you determined with certainty how the water is finding its way into the oil? There's no point in chasing anything else until that question is answered.

[oceanwatersailor]

I read in another thread that you should change it three times. My issue is that when i pump it out then all i add is one quart back in and it is full again reading on dipstick. It does not run more than 15 sec or so.

How long do i need to run it before changing again?

[Carl-T705]

Hi
Water in the oil IS a big issue, when you don't know how it's getting in there. Are you certain the water is circulating in the block?

"Does the transmission/gearbox suppose to have oil in it?"
Yes, the gear box and the engine crankcase is one unit on these engines. Check the dipstick for the proper level. These engines are placed at different angles in different boats.
"When it is in neutral should the prop spin freely?"
Well, not freely, the stuffing box presents some drag on the prop. shaft.
"Would it start in anything other than neutral?"
It will start in neutral , forward or reverse, there is no neutral safety switch like there is in an auto.
"Anyone have a stuffing box drive shaft refurbish write up?"
Just a bout every sailing site has this subject covered, search stuffing box, prop shaft and you should find one.

[romantic comedy]

You need to get the water out, FIRST. You could be pumping water into the bearing, and not oil.

The prop will spin free in neutral. If you are having doubts, try turning it by hand. Better yet, disconnect the coupling.

The same oil is used in the crank case and engine.

How long has the engine been sitting? How long with the water in the oil? This concerns me.

[oceanwatersailor]

Cylinder 2 leak

Yes I agree it is. Here is the findings this morning:

Compression check:

1 - 125 psi
2 - 0 psi
3 - 110 psi
4 - 110 psi


I double checked 2 and sure enough it is 0. Could there be some possibility that the exhaust on 2 is leaking and just need a gasket?
I have the workshop manuals on CD and so I will be researching this. If you have seen this before or have any suggestions on where the leak is ?

[oceanwatersailor]

You need to get the water out, FIRST. You could be pumping water into the bearing, and not oil.

The prop will spin free in neutral. If you are having doubts, try turning it by hand. Better yet, disconnect the coupling.

The same oil is used in the crank case and engine.

How long has the engine been sitting? How long with the water in the oil? This concerns me.

I was told it has been sitting for a couple years. Water was in the oil when I first checked it.

The prop does not spin freely and I was told since there is no room to re-do the stuffing I will have to unbolt the engine and see if I can slide it forward to get to it.

[ndutton]

You're probably dealing with multiple issues. Don't get too focused on finding one single problem.

Zero compression in #2 is likely a stuck valve and there's a chance it has nothing to do with the source of the water incursion or might be a result of it. I suggest you continue the oil changes and cranking the engine with the spark plugs removed and the intake thru-hull closed to get good oil throughout the machinery. At the same time I'd perform a cooling system pressure test. Expecting that test to fail, I'd pressure test the manifold by itself. Then it's time to deal with the stuck valve.

There's no point in changing oil and trying to run the engine if you continue to add water to the mix.

[romantic comedy]

Many times a valve gets stuck in the open position, and the compression is zero. You can check the valves by removing the valve cover and watching to see them move. The cover is on the carb side, under the manifold. Dont know what gasket you are referring to, with number 2.

[Mo]

You're probably dealing with multiple issues. Don't get too focused on finding one single problem.

Zero compression in #2 is likely a stuck valve and there's a chance it has nothing to do with the source of the water incursion or might be a result of it. I suggest you continue the oil changes and cranking the engine with the spark plugs removed and the intake thru-hull closed to get good oil throughout the machinery. At the same time I'd perform a cooling system pressure test. Expecting that test to fail, I'd pressure test the manifold by itself. Then it's time to deal with the stuck valve.

There's no point in changing oil and trying to run the engine if you continue to add water to the mix.

As per above. When you remove the plugs do any of them have droplets of water on them. That would be a big indicator of where the problem is.

Also: if you start the engine with the raw water intake turned off how does it run...don't run over 30-40 seconds and shut it off. Then start it again and open raw water...if it stalls out I'd be looking for a manifold crack first...that would possibly explain why valves might be stuck in No. 2 cyl.

So, have a look at:
-starting no water
-starting and turn on water.
-then pull the plugs and see if there are any droplets on them....gas does not form droplets...water does.
-if you have droplets on a plug or plugs suspect manifold and be prepared to remove the head to deal with the valve issue if it's been sitting like that a while.

A bad winterization could have cause a crack in the manifold then the contents drain in on top of the valves...then they seize.

This is NOT the only scenario but it's a common one in my corner of the pond.

[oceanwatersailor]

Thanks for all the replies! You folks are awesome!

With new plugs in and it ran some the number one plug is black, number two is wet with no water droplets, number three and four are clean looking with a bit of gas smell.

I am working on this as week speak....

[oceanwatersailor]

with a flashlight down in on cylinder 2 I can see what looks like the top of the valve moving opening and closing.

[Mo]

There are two valves...can you see one next to it...

[Mo]

Can you take a pic of those plugs....is that number 2 really really clean?

[oceanwatersailor]

Sorry, I dont have a way to do the picture but the 2 plug is pretty clean like maybe it has some fluid on it.