We live in Freeport Maine...

[GEM555]

Contact Handy Boat Service, just 10 miles down the road from you in Falmouth. They used to have an A4 expert there named Felix.

http://handyboat.com/contact.html

Thanks. But not anymore (as of May 2018)

[GEM555]

How much WOULD you pay for a reliable engine?
Give us a number and we can work up a solution (or not).
How much did you pay for the entire boat in the first place?

I originally paid 11K for the boat with new sails in fresh water in a place that had a good A4 mechanic. It was in fresh for it's entire life. We put a new interior in. I did not realize when I brought it to the coast that A4 support was so thin on the ground.

The engine in it was the second engine it had. However, I found out that the engine was rust clogged and ended up getting another one put in last year.. Got it from a yard on Long Island - all I could find that was in reasonable shape at the time. A yard in Freeport swapped the engine out (has a guy that "really knows" the A4). I got about 45 minutes run time out of the engine before it totally refused to start one Friday. The mechanic was on a 5 week walkabout at that point and when he got back he refused to assist (probably because the bill had been paid?).

That was at the end of last season. I made bunches of calls and found that no one - no marina - would even look at the engine. Finally found a local guy who worked on it over the winter and had it running on the hard. Heard it - saw it. Then we launched it and the engine just would. not. start. So I made more calls up/down the coast this spring, looking for help. Same answer "An A4? No way, no how, no sir."

I do have to credit my guy - he has invested a lot of his own time, unpaid, trying to get the thing working reliably.

So I have a 30' Cat Mk1, with a dead A4, (an engine I have learned not to trust). Between last year's replacement, yard fees, this year's mechanic's fees, parts, (not counting the cost of my time of course) bet I've spent most of 10K. The good news? The sails have seen very little wear this season! So there's that.

[ndutton]

Please ask your current mechanic to join the forum and contact us. I’ll bet we can help him.

[joe_db]

Please ask your current mechanic to join the forum and contact us. I’ll bet we can help him.

^^^^^^^^
This!!!

BTW - there is no way anyone rusted 2 A4s to death since the 1980s in fresh water. Someone pulled a fast one on you. Too late now, but "rust clogged"may have been an easy fix. RWC A4s can get very gooped up with algae, sand, minerals, and mud. An acid clean usually fixes it.

EDIT - who told you it was rust-clogged and who suggested the engine from Long Island?

[sdemore]

I'm watching this whole thing and it's like a pissing contest. I had never heard of an A4 a year and a half ago and mine arrived fully disassembled and in cardboard boxes. By listening to the advice of the people on this board, I rebuilt parts, reassembled things, and wound up with both a solidly running engine and the knowledge that I can fix anything that goes wrong with it.

I've heard the same garbage about A4s being unreliable boat anchors and I too have had a few problems, but my friends with diesels that don't run them every few days, have far greater problems that I do. The people badmouthing them are usually diesel mechanics who are clueless about engines that the computer won't diagnose for them. These engines are basic enough for anybody to learn, but if you don't want to, then you're in a bind regardless the power source you go with.

[GEM555]

How much WOULD you pay for a reliable engine?
Give us a number and we can work up a solution (or not).
How much did you pay for the entire boat in the first place?

Are you saying you are going to jump in an airplane and come and fix it for me? How else would this work?

[GEM555]

The vast majority come here looking for help and/or advice and we are happy to do the best we can. Rarely if ever does someone come here to tell us our assistance is unwanted and to malign and complain about an engine that has proven itself over several decades. I implore you to either sell or donate this boat for your sake and the boat's.

Entirely possible but we really don't have the necessary evidence to conclude this nor should we expect to get the evidence.

Admin with his finger on the button, dump it if I crossed a line.

I am sorry if I gave you the impression that your assistance is unwanted. I just don't know what to do with it. I don't have the skill or time necessary to hink with the engine - and the boat is 2.5 hours away from where I live. I would need support when I am actually there - struggling with a dead engine.

[GEM555]

^^^^^^^^
This!!!

BTW - there is no way anyone rusted 2 A4s to death since the 1980s in fresh water. Someone pulled a fast one on you. Too late now, but "rust clogged"may have been an easy fix. RWC A4s can get very gooped up with algae, sand, minerals, and mud. An acid clean usually fixes it.

EDIT - who told you it was rust-clogged and who suggested the engine from Long Island?

The inspection plate on the side of the engine was glued on at keep it from leaking - the threads were rusted so badly that the bolts basically came out by hand and the plate had to be pried off. Inside was plugged with rust and nothing but rust. But the real killer was the plate itself (so I was told). No real way to re-attach it to the main part of the engine. I found the engine in LI on the WEB. No one suggested it - spent a month on the WEB looking - it was all I could find (used A4's aren't that easy to find). The plate was attached with good threads and the inside looked pretty clean. Also it had been retrofitted with a Moyer water pump.

[GEM555]

"The mechanic(s) removed the head multiple times? That's ridiculous. If it truly needed to be removed a second time it means they didn't do the job right the first time."

See it from my point of view. I have just exactly one resource for this engine in the entire state. Just one. And if I have a cylinder that isn't firing and he thinks the head has to come off, what's my alternative? I can say "no" but I don't have a better idea.

[ndutton]

"The mechanic(s) removed the head multiple times? That's ridiculous. If it truly needed to be removed a second time it means they didn't do the job right the first time."

See it from my point of view. I have just exactly one resource for this engine in the entire state. Just one. And if I have a cylinder that isn't firing and he thinks the head has to come off, what's my alternative? I can say "no" but I don't have a better idea.

Your point of view has been the Atomic 4 cannot be made to run reliably under any circumstances. For the second time, please ask your current mechanic to join the forum and contact us.

[GEM555]

Your point of view has been the Atomic 4 cannot be made to run reliably under any circumstances. For the second time, please ask your current mechanic to join the forum and contact us.

"My point of view" - based on direct, first hand experience. But I'll speak to him.

[ndutton]

"My point of view" - based on direct, first hand experience

You don't have to accept it but please realize the forum members have a completely different point of view based on - you guessed it - direct, first hand experience. It might be worthwhile to consider what makes our experiences different than yours. That is, what factors are different? We have the same engine as you, same ignition, same valves, same boat, same age, same marine environment, same rust. Consider too that there are thousands of us who do not share your experience, point of view or conclusions.

But I'll speak to him

Thank you.

Have any of your mechanics mentioned winterizing? That task is a mere weeks away for you, engine running or not. If it's not done properly and in time the engine will ruined . . . . . and that's not the engine's fault either.

[joe_db]

I had an MG that was quite reliable and I had a Toyota Camry that couldn't drive around the block without a part falling off and went through 3 transmissions in 100,000 miles.
Anecdotes are not data and no one would seriously suggest buying an MG because Toyotas break all the time.

So...My original A4 took us to New England twice and Bermuda 3 times with no issues at all. Obviously they can be made to work.

Please please have your mechanic get on here.

[GEM555]

You don't have to accept it but please realize the forum members have a completely different point of view based on - you guessed it - direct, first hand experience. It might be worthwhile to consider what makes our experiences different than yours. That is, what factors are different? We have the same engine as you, same ignition, same valves, same boat, same age, same marine environment, same rust. Consider too that there are thousands of us who do not share your experience, point of view or conclusions.


Thank you.

Have any of your mechanics mentioned winterizing? That task is a mere weeks away for you, engine running or not. If it's not done properly and in time the engine will ruined . . . . . and that's not the engine's fault either.

"Winterizing" is a fact of life in these climes. So yes. We understand that. I have the engine winterized each year.

I apologize for beating up on your engine. We did not realize that you have to be a skilled mechanic to own one, that's all.

Please understand: I am in a business where people are forever sticking their hands in when they don't really know what they are doing. 98% of the time they do nothing more than make the knot tighter and harder for me and my team to finally untie. This lesson (re-learned every business day) leads me to keep my hands OFF the engine because I don't have a friggin clue. I have one diagnostic skill: call the mechanic. If I truly thought I couldn't really "break things worse" maybe I'd take a serious lash at it.

[ndutton]

We did not realize that you have to be a skilled mechanic to own one, that's all.

Please forgive me but this is the bias that in my opinion is working against you, one of the different factors mentioned in my previous post. The members of this forum, successful Atomic 4 owners all, have varying mechanical skills. Some are experts, some are less than expert and some came here with zero experience (to me that means no bad habits either). The more able of us are eager to help, teach if you will, the lesser able. The more they do, the better their skill repertoire grows over time.

As for If I truly thought I couldn't really "break things worse" maybe I'd take a serious lash at it, considering what you have reported to us, I don't see the risk. Using your own term, how much damage can you inflict on a paperweight? I think you're selling yourself short but frankly I've thought that all along. Said another way, I think we have more faith in you than you do. However, for there to be any hope of success we need to speak with someone who knows this is fixable and your comments thus far don't support that. It's the reason we are looking forward to working with your mechanic.