Water has gotten into crankcase and Oil

[Peter]

did you do the pressure test of the pump?

Peter

[RobH2]

No, that is one thing I neglected to do. I've pulled it and I guess I could just put it back together and pressure test it to see if it leaks. I'll do that while I wait on parts.

The water was found in the oil the same day I changed the impeller. I've always been suspicious that it was somehow related, but the sheer volume of water led me away from it. I guess in retrospect I should have tested it first. At the same time I was seeing steam on the exhaust wrapping and that lead me down the exhaust rabbit hole. Coincidences to happen and it is possible that my pump and exhaust both malfunctioned at the same time.

I hope these new water pump parts solve it. We'll see in a few days.

[ndutton]

Rob, you wouldn't be the first one looking for a single solution to multiple problems.

[RobH2]

I hear you Neil.

Here's how I see it now. I've rebuilt the exhaust so I know it can't be a culprit. Once I rebuld the pump, I'll know that it's not the cause. So if I still get water incursion I'll know where I "don't" need to look.

One person mentioned a bolt inside the head or something that can leak. But since my jacket held pressure for nearly 3 days, I don't think I have an internal leak or crack.

It has to be the water pump seals I'm thinking. Only thing is, the volume of water is such that some of you have said it's unlikely that it's the water pump. I just don't know.

Let me get these rebuild parts in from Moyer and see what happens. I may have good news. If not, we'll start looking at some other causes.

[Wisakedjack]

Rob, I may be heading into the same rabbit hole. I also have lots of water in oil and I did change the impeller this spring. I am yet to do pressure tests to rule out other sources. But I am curious whether leak in Oberdorfer water pump could result in so much water in oil? I've seen Don't comments in few threads and I understand some water could get through, but not a lot? Please, keep us posted about your progress. I am very interested to learn what you find and how you solve (hopefully soon) your issue. Cheers and good luck with your repairs

[RobH2]

Really, that's interesting and unfortunate for you also.

I will certainly report in. This is a great forum with a lot of very knowledgable guys. When I bought my boat 9-years ago I had a severe overheating problem that was very evasive. These guys helped me solve it and the engine has run like a top until I changed the oil three weeks ago.

I'll report back later this week.

[joe_db]

Run the engine without the water pump and see what happens. You can *carefully* use dock water to cool the engine. Do NOT run the water full blast, you want just enough to get decent water flow out of the exhaust.

[RobH2]

Run the engine without the water pump and see what happens. You can *carefully* use dock water to cool the engine. Do NOT run the water full blast, you want just enough to get decent water flow out of the exhaust.

Really? Would never have attempted to do that. I guess I can just start with a very slow flow and very carefully increase flow as I see the temp rise and then back off as it approaches 150 or 160. Does that seem like a good way to approach it?

[RobH2]

This suggestion to run the engine without the water pump leads me to a couple of questions.

1. As I look at the water pump closer, I don't see how it can cause much if any water to get into the engine. The two weep holes prevent any pressure build-up at the point where the shaft enters the engine to connect to whatever is rotating that it mates with. If the seal on the engine at that hole was leaking I'd see that and I don't. The seals that I ordered and am waiting for really just seal the water pump itself from leaking. It appears to me that if the water pump was leaking, even heavily, that the only thing that would occur would be water in the bilge.

2. A comment was made to run the engine with the exhaust off (with cautions) to eliminate the possibility of backflow from the wet exhaust. I'm wondering what those precautions might be? The noise is obvious but I envision flames shooting out the back of manifold just under my fuel line. If I pull the water hose from the brass exhaust water injector fitting and send that to the bilge, isn't that sufficient for running with the exhaust as if the pipe had been taken off? The only thing I worry about there is if if the superheated exhaust might overheat the lift and the hoses beyond it. I mean, that actually does get used without water as I have the water intake shut off when I start the engine. Then once the idle stabilizes and doesn't stall, I open the intake. So that whole exhaust line to the back of the boat already gets just pure hot air every time I start. Just for not very long.

So, if it wouldn't damage anything to divert the water from the back of the manifold so that is skips the exhaust injector fitting and I cool the engine from a dock hose, wouldn't that be an adequate way to test the engine?

3. Back to using dock water to cool the engine with the pump off. What's the danger of pushing the water a little too fast? Imagine I have the water hose from the back of the manifold diverted away from the exhaust injector and into the bilge (or overboard). What would too much water hurt except cooling too fast and not letting the engine heat up? I assume that as long as I'm not exceeding 20lbs (I only say this because that's the pressure used to do a pressure test) of pressure that it wouldn't hurt anything.

As I think about this more I'm becoming more and more baffled. Assuming that the waterpump is not capable of injecting tons of water into the engine, and that the exhaust is brand new and has no leaks, and that the water jacket held air for nearly 3 days, where else could the water get in? That's the million dollar question and the one we're trying to solve....just thinking out loud....baffling...!

[joe_db]

Dock water - you can do a lot of damage with a 100 PSI water feed. If nothing else, you'll overwhelm the exhaust system and backflood the engine. I would find a hose setting above a trickle but not with the water shooting out very far. The goal is not starving the exhaust system of water and melting the hose on one hand and not overheating the engine on the other. For a point of reference, my water pump failed once and I plumbed in the galley pressure water pump as a substitute. I was a bit nervous at idle and didn't run at low RPMs much and the engine would overheat past about 3/4s power. That was a 3 GPH/40 PSI pump. A typical water hose is a LOT more than that.

Exhaust check - actual flames will not come out. The idea is no water at all should be exiting the exhaust manifold. You take the riser off and run the engine and look. It will be LOUD and carbon monoxide will be in abundance. So you start it, look, see water or no water, and shut it off 20 seconds later. My old engine would shoot water out of there because it had issues with water getting out around the manifold studs.

[RobH2]

Dock water - you can do a lot of damage with a 100 PSI water feed. If nothing else, you'll overwhelm the exhaust system... and shut it off 20 seconds later. My old engine would shoot water out of there because it had issues with water getting out around the manifold studs.

10-4 on all of that. Thank you.

[joe_db]

10-4 on all of that. Thank you.

I want to restate the CO danger. Enough CO can kill you VERY fast. I would make this a two person operation. One watches and one runs the engine to look at the exhaust.

[RobH2]

I'm chasing a ghost now it seems and I'm trying to look where it makes the most sense.

Can I assume that there is no way a water pump (with clear weep holes) can contribute more than a few drops of water to the oil?

As I prepare to put new seals in mine (Oberdorfer) I realize that the water pump can't be the cause of large amounts of water or else the seal on the block where the pump shaft enters would be showing signs of severe leaking. And, mine is completely sound.

[roadnsky]

Ok, we feel your pain here.
That water is coming from somewhere.

Is there any chance that the gauge on the pressure test was faulty?
Do you think it's worth another run at that again using another gauge?
(Maybe one with a smaller scale to it?)

[RobH2]

Good thought Jerry but you maybe missed a post. I bought a new bike pump and ran the test again. I pumped it to 20lbs and after 1.5 hours it lost maybe 1-2 lbs. The pump was at the water output hose and I had a release valve at the water ejection hose at the back of the manifold.

I left the boat and came back 2 days later and had forgotten to release the pressure. I looked at the gauge and was surprised to see I still have 5lbs in the water jacket. I turned the release valve at the manifold and let the pressure out.

So, I know the pressure made it all the way to the manifold.

I'm rambling, but I feel confident my water jacket is sound. Also, If the manifold bolts, water pump PTO or any other water jacket point of incursion or exit were leaky, I'd have seen that.

I'm baffled. New exhaust, water lift looked fine, no corrosion or visible problems, new water hoses.