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Old 09-21-2020, 08:44 PM
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Removed water jacket plates. Now what?

Hi Afourians, hope all are well. Engine ran hot during last outing, 9/13/2020. Real hot and shut down. Got tow to home dock. The boat had been laid up in a yard for 3 yrs before being splashed Feb 22 2020. I had emptied the cooling system sometime in the first year of dry dock when boatyard mgr was being non compliant. Prior to leaving dock after splash, I vinegar soaked and flushed the engine, changed all fuel fittings, fuel tank removed and cleaned out totally, cleaned carb, replaced all lines and filters. Got the engine running with 2 new batteries, exhaust flow good. Ran well at dock. Motored 4 hours very uneventfully from boatyard to home dock with normal temp, oil pressure, at approximately 5 kts per hour. Took boat out 2x in Spring, 2020, water temp was uncharacteristically warm, like 180-190, motoring back to slip. Fast forward to 9/13/2020, engine ran hot immediately upon entering currant against us. In about 3 minutes Engine shut down on her own and I called for tow.
I’ve removed the alternator to remove the side water jacket plate on that side. Full of crud. The little pipe cap diverted was buried in the crud. I removed by hand as much crud as I could. There’s a still a little bit left in there.
Question 1: with the water jacket plate removed, can I just shoot some fresh water in there and clean this out? (I had removed the distributor cap for better access but covered it to prevent dirt/water ingress-Petronix electronic ignition).
Question 2: if this side of the block is so full of crud, I guess I need to remove the carb side water jacket plate and do the same. Concur?
Question 3: would it be better/easier to reassemble and just fresh water high pressure flush?
Question 4: IF, AND I SAY IF, a new head gasket is in order, should I reassemble? There is no milky appearance in oil at all. There was oily smoke burning out of the exhaust prior to shutdown, not huge amounts, but some. There is smoke coming from engine compartment but I can’t determine from where. ?? I’ve tried to fan the smoke away to see the origin but still cannot tell.
Lastly, Question 5: can the engine start without the alternator ? The starter is still on, just not the alternator.
Late model A4 in a v-drive C&C 33-1. Don’t understand how she can make a great 4 hr motor down river, then this.
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Old 09-21-2020, 09:32 PM
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Were you discharging water out the back (or wherever) when it overheated?

Have you ever lost one or more of the vanes on the raw water pump impeller?

Raw water cooling, I assume.

Bill
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Old 09-21-2020, 09:46 PM
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The impeller was the first thing I checked.All was good, New impeller, no fins changed. All seemed good.
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Old 09-21-2020, 09:48 PM
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Very little exhaust water, water pump checked out fine.
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Old 09-21-2020, 10:46 PM
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Questions

Barbara, a couple questions for you until the more knowledgeable respond. -- You mention ed the water pump was OK, but could you determine if water was coming in via the thru-hull ? And second, have you examined the exhaust system - particularly the flexible hoses ?


Rick
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Old 09-21-2020, 11:04 PM
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I would remove the two hoses & fittings going into the exhaust manifold and look at the fittings. I found one of mine was almost totally blocked.

Also pull the thermostat and check for proper operation, put it into boiling water and see if it's opening up, clean out those openings as well. Check all your hoses.

See if that helps. Add a Raw water filter for sure. It's pretty easy to plumb in.

Jack
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Old 09-22-2020, 05:52 AM
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Sounds like a coolant flow interruption. Are you sure it was smoke and not steam from exhaust? You say flow was poor. I would check that water can come in the thru hull.

Question 2 - the plate on the carb side is to access the valves, not water jacket, so no need to remove it.

Question 5: yes you can start without alternator. Just that batteries will not charge from engine

Hope others will chime in.

Peter
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Old 09-22-2020, 07:47 AM
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to check your flow, do that step by step:
- disconnect discharge of manifold and hose it to a bucket; start the engine for a few second to visually gauge flow


- first check that suction is not plugged by disconnecting from seacock (after closing it), and sucking from a bucket. Start the engine for a few second to visually gauge flow. If no improvement, reconnect
- then work your way back up: disconnect at thermostat discharge, and send to bucket (manifold is now disconnected). Start the engine for a few second to visually gauge flow. If no improvement, reconnect
- then disconnect at pump discharge (you are now testing only the pump). Run for a few seconds. If it still does not work now, your pump is the issue.

Note: If you have an exhaust lifter, make sure to open drain or whatever is your procedure to avoid getting water back in your engine
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Old 09-22-2020, 10:17 AM
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Hi Barbara,

I don't think the carb side has a water jacket plate.

You may have already done this but in case you haven't I would:

- check the outlet fitting on the manifold for rust that will block water flow to the muffler
- check the T fitting on the water plate for bits of past impeller blades
- check the outlet fittings of the water pump for bits of past impeller blades.

I used a dental pick and small putty knife to get all my junk out of the engine cooling area. That was 10 years ago and my 1982 engine has been running cool ever since. I don't think it will hurt the engine to hose out that area, but it will make a mess.
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Old 09-22-2020, 02:11 PM
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Thanks for all suggestions. I checked the incoming thruhull, water comes through. Water comes through Groco filter, water comes through pump, the t-stat operates, it starts moving at 140 degrees. Water does not get to the manifold inlet and it appears that it does not leave the thermostat well. There is water in the thermostat housing, but the inlet to the manifold is dry. I think the only thing left to do is to replace the water jacket side plate and pressure flush the system. Will let you know.
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Old 09-22-2020, 04:47 PM
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Barbara if you can start her in the dark, often you can spot where the "smoke" is emanating from with the beam of a small flashlight.

Dave Neptune
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Old 09-22-2020, 09:32 PM
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Thx Dave Neptune for that. Cannot see crap in the daylight. Will do this.
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Old 10-04-2020, 09:27 PM
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Continuing cooling system clean out.

So I removed the alternator, and the cooling jacket plate and cleaned out as much crud as I could by hand and by using a small measuring spoon. That was a mess. When I was replacing the jacket plate, apparently some threads stripped in 2 bolts, and , of course not adjacent to one another. I’ll order the side plate repair kits (for all bolts just in case) and go from there. Sigh...still have not flushed the system. Onward and upward. Upon others’ recommendations, will be going to fresh water cooling system from here on.
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Last edited by blhickson; 10-04-2020 at 09:31 PM.
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Old 10-06-2020, 10:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blhickson View Post
When I was replacing the jacket plate, apparently some threads stripped in 2 bolts, and , of course not adjacent to one another. I’ll order the side plate repair kits (for all bolts just in case) and go from there.
Barbara-
Note that you can easily cut the backing plate of the repair kit in half if you just want to do only one bolt hole.
The JB Weld will hold it in place. (See pics)

Of course, there is nothing wrong with just repairing adjacent holes or even all of the holes as you mentioned.
The kit really makes for a beefy fix.
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Old 10-06-2020, 08:49 PM
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Side plate so clean you could eat off it!

Roadnsky, thanks for your input . Your side plate is so clean��! I ordered 4 kits so I’m going with all new studs just for good measure. It will be a mess to remove with all the Permatex I painted on. Good thing I ordered spare gaskets��! Any suggestions for removing Permatex from tools and fingers? I do use gloves, but...they wear thru pretty quickly. Thanks for the pix!
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Old 10-07-2020, 12:47 PM
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Any suggestions for removing Permatex from tools and fingers? I do use gloves, but...they wear thru pretty quickly. Thanks for the pix!
Barbara-
Doing all of the bolts with the backing plate kits is a good way to go.
(I wish I'd done mine at the time of my repair)
As Neal says, "Do it right... only cry once"

As far as Permatex cleanup.
If you let it dry completely, it takes on a rubbery texture and is pretty easy to rub off. Especially fingers and most tools.
I did clean up a rubber bowl and spoon a long time back with dish soap and it came right off.
YMMV
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Old 10-11-2020, 09:52 PM
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Smile Water jacket bolt fixes are on!

Yay, finally received the water jacket bolt repair kits this week (4) and the install did not go badly at all. I dry fitted all of them first and, after figuring out the contortions to put them in, all of them went on without having to cut any. This was the harder part of the install with the JBWeld. It took a while to figure out how to hold the plate just so, so I could screw a bolt into it with the other hand. That was the challenge. I used a mechanic’s pick to hold some in place, that was a good thought. I took everything off in the same order that I had dry fitted, and placed the same bolts in the same holes for each stainless back strap. The JB WELD was not as messy as I had imagined, but while wrestling into position, I did put my calf and thigh into the Weld. Oh well, could have been far worse. I used the “double nutting” technique as instructed in the MM instructions the first time, but did not see the advantage of it, so only wrenched the one nut into place after that. It is setting and I will get back to installing the side plate in a day or two. The whole deal was not as bad as I imagined. I hope I put enough JBWeld on the back plates. I probably did, but not like Roadnsky’s impeccable slathering. Hope it won’t come back to haunt me. Will keep the brain trust informed. Excited to get this project moving forward.
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Old 10-11-2020, 09:57 PM
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WAS I SUPPOSED TO...

Was I supposed to remove the nuts after using them to tighten the back plates against the inside of the water jacket☺️.. The MM instructions did not address this and I assumed they would need to stay in play until the JBWeld was set.
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