Ignition Issues, Need Help

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  • TimBSmith
    Afourian MVP
    • Aug 2020
    • 162

    #16
    What to add....

    You have the emeritus brain trust commenting already....

    My only comment is slow down. Savor the learning/teaching moment. Again and again I am learning that nearly everything that goes wrong with our iron sail or sailing in general stems from an attempt to force impatience into nature. I am still learning that the bedrock of sailing is a well monitored and managed "flow state".

    My own lessons on the electrical front. My PO was an electrical engineer. This elicits two reactions...the naive: "that is excellent" and the wise "dear god no!".

    You see, the brilliant expert rarely documents design improvisation. That is left for you to discover. And if you are new to boating electrical the Dunning Kruger effect(a little knowledge is dangerous) will really set you up for some adventures.

    Out of unadulterated fear and skimming the DC Bible, I traced every wire. Inspected every fuse. Bus bars were found in the strangest places. Fusing patterns defied my attempts to discern purpose and effect.

    And then...much later...I came to understand 50% of what I had seen. I am still working on the rest. How many times have I reviewed the calculations for coil resistance and protecting the alternator and starting circuit. When I read the word "diode" my eyes roll back into my skull.

    And yet. When I slow down. Deepen. I reduce errors. I derisk my ignorance. My errors are therefore, less expensive. And that, in this boating world, is a big win. (for all but the 1%).

    The only risks worse than rushing anything sailing related is sailing when both ignorant and broke. Don't ask me how I know. This is not to say that sailing needs to be expensive. Once again father time is your friend. A captain can learn much investigating, speaking to other captains and frequenting salvage yards for good value. Even when it comes to electrical infrastructure.

    My only advice is to slow down. Enjoy(even savor) the learning. Derisk your sailing journey. Embrace unique communities like this one where most everyone (including our host) will instantly invest in you, help you succeed beyond your wildest imaginings.

    Welcome to the forum and the A4 that is your ticket to an adventure that transcends having a functioning propulsion system, and really asks you what kind of skipper do you want to be. Closing with gratitude to you and all contributors.
    Tim Smith
    Oasis
    Pearson 30
    1974, Number 572
    Boston, MA USA

    Comment

    • joe_db
      Afourian MVP
      • May 2009
      • 4527

      #17
      Here is a better diagram that eliminates the problematic ammeter.
      Joe Della Barba
      Coquina
      C&C 35 MK I
      Maryland USA

      Comment

      • joe_db
        Afourian MVP
        • May 2009
        • 4527

        #18
        Also buy these books. They aren't cheap but will save you many multiples of what they cost.


        Joe Della Barba
        Coquina
        C&C 35 MK I
        Maryland USA

        Comment

        • Bents
          Senior Member
          • Jul 2023
          • 24

          #19
          Thank you, Tim.

          Wise words, I will take them to heart. I certainly intend to take my time. I'm a hands on learner and anytime spent on the boat is good time.

          Comment

          • W2ET
            Former Admin
            • Oct 2008
            • 171

            #20
            Regarding that old/damaged wiring, I refer you to this.

            Showing my age, I know....

            Bill

            Comment

            • Dave Neptune
              Afourian MVP, Professor Emeritus
              • Jan 2007
              • 5050

              #21
              Bill, thanx for the good laugh.

              Dave Neptune

              Comment

              • joe_db
                Afourian MVP
                • May 2009
                • 4527

                #22
                I agree - take it all off. None of that wiring looks reusable to me. Also do NOT try and recreate the trailer plug idea.
                Joe Della Barba
                Coquina
                C&C 35 MK I
                Maryland USA

                Comment

                • sastanley
                  Afourian MVP
                  • Sep 2008
                  • 7030

                  #23
                  Bents...as a former Catalina owner, I can reinforce how terrible those silly "trailer plugs" are in those boats. I did this off-season, but I totally rewired the engine harness. You can always temporarily replace a bad wire, and it is your boat, so YMMV.
                  Here are a couple pics of my re-wire...and good luck.
                  Attached Files
                  Last edited by sastanley; 08-03-2023, 09:30 PM.
                  -Shawn
                  "Holiday" - '89 Alura 35 #109
                  "Twice Around" - '77 C-30, #511 with original A-4 & MMI manifold - SOLD! (no longer a two boat owner!!)
                  sigpic

                  Comment

                  • GregH
                    Afourian MVP
                    • Jun 2015
                    • 598

                    #24
                    I couldn't see if anyone commented on the picture of your batteries. The battery with the charger clipped on - both the red and black need to be changed. The exposed wire strands are bad/dangerous enough snice they are bent and have little support but I believe I can also see some frayed strands.
                    Greg
                    1975 Alberg 30
                    sigpic

                    Comment

                    • Surcouf
                      Afourian MVP, Professor Emeritus
                      • May 2018
                      • 372

                      #25
                      plenty of good advices here...
                      like may others, I went through the task of completely removing the trailer harness, and re-wire everything directly point to point. I learnt a lot on the way, and corrected many PO incomprehensible decisions (pretty sure I created a few more for future ones...)
                      Took me the best part of a full day, after long hours of reading several threads, and multiple trips to Harbor freight, shipshandler etc...

                      you will se on post #164 what my plug looked like when I decided to remove harness, and add fuses to many missing circuits

                      read everything you can, I liked those 2.



                      It ended up being a much easier job than I expected, and when with lines properly arranged, it looked so much better. Clearly not an hour job, but not a season ending job at all.
                      Surcouf
                      A nostalgic PO - Previously "Almost There" - Catalina 27 (1979)

                      Comment

                      • Bents
                        Senior Member
                        • Jul 2023
                        • 24

                        #26
                        Update

                        Hi all,

                        I finally received all of the parts I was waiting on at the end of last week and headed to the boat bright and early this morning with my Dad and BIL. Here is what we accomplished today:

                        - Removed old ignition and installed new brass ignition
                        - completely replaced all wiring from the old harness, including the plugs, with direct connections. All new terminals with heat shrink protection.
                        -removed ammeter and replaced with volt meter.
                        -put appropriate inline fuses in as per the wiring diagram. there were no fuses in the old harness.

                        One more immediate job I will do is fix up those battery cables that are exposed but we couldn't get to it today.

                        Once we had everything wired up we tried to start the engine and got nothing. We used a multimeter to check everything and all seems fine. Nothing caught on fire, blower works, lights work, volt gauge works. We checked resistance across the solenoid and got nothing, no "clicks" when engaging the ignition. I'm going to replace the solenoid on my next day off unless anyone here has a suggestion or any advice on what I should check..

                        I used the attached diagram. A couple things of note, the 12 gauge wires are actually 10 gauge. The yellow/red stripe wire is a white wire that I put yellow and red electrical tape on for indication. The orange wire is actually a red power cable in the photos.

                        Would definitely appreciate some feedback.
                        Attached Files

                        Comment

                        • Bents
                          Senior Member
                          • Jul 2023
                          • 24

                          #27
                          more photos
                          Attached Files

                          Comment

                          • Bents
                            Senior Member
                            • Jul 2023
                            • 24

                            #28
                            last of the photos
                            Attached Files

                            Comment

                            • Dave Neptune
                              Afourian MVP, Professor Emeritus
                              • Jan 2007
                              • 5050

                              #29
                              When you say nothing happened, what exactly do you mean?
                              Did the engine not crank over?
                              Did the engine crank over and not start? If it did did you check for spark and fuel?
                              Did you try jumping the starter?
                              Did you wire direct to the fuel pump or through the OPSS?

                              You got nothing gives us nothing for info which is needed for diagnostics and or fixes.

                              Dave Neptune
                              Last edited by Dave Neptune; 08-21-2023, 07:47 PM. Reason: one more question

                              Comment

                              • Bents
                                Senior Member
                                • Jul 2023
                                • 24

                                #30
                                The engine did not crank over. No sound or "clicking" from the starter at all. Its like I might as well have not even turned the key.

                                I did not try jumping the starter but I can give that a try.

                                I did not replace any wires connecting to the fuel pump/OPSS.

                                Comment

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