Yet another Used A4 Newbie

**Dave Neptune** · 03-25-2011, 05:38 PM

Welcome

Bold, welcome to the forum! Get ready to get familiar with the valve train galley or perhaps a head removal

due to zero compression. Good thing she spins so get some spray oil into the spark plug holes to start the stems and guides soaking a bit.

Dave Neptune

**ndutton** · 03-25-2011, 05:51 PM

I am encouraged by your story because

The engine has the outward appearance of being well cared for. If the previous owner took care of the outside both in appearance and function (FWC is a huge indicator) he likely took care of it on the inside too.
The engine is spinning. This implies it hasn't been backflooded through the exhaust.

I think you have a lot to work with and it probably won't take too long to get there. When it comes to resurrecting an engine that's been idle for years, among others around here, Dave's da man!

Plan on thoroughly going through all ancillary systems too (fuel, exhaust, electrical). They don't like sitting idle either.

**thatch** · 03-25-2011, 06:14 PM

Bold,
To elaborate on Dave's comments, the most likely reason for your zero compression readings are because an A4's valves and valve guides are made of steel. Sitting for any length of time will routinely cause them to "bind'" together resulting in your "stuck valve" situation. Pouring MMO (Marvel Mystery Oil) into the cylinders will free them up sometimes, but on some occasions a head removal is in order. Having a "rotating" engine assembly is definately a good sign so hang on while we help you through the rehab process.
Tom

**roadnsky** · 03-25-2011, 06:44 PM

Rascal-
To add to the other's advice, here's a quote from our "Great Father" Don regarding an engine that has been idle...

Precautions when starting up an engine that has been sitting idle
Assuming that the previous owner followed the simple procedure of “fogging” the engine with Marvel Mystery Oil when it was last shut down, and/or that the engine still turns freely, there are only a few things that you need to be concerned about.

1) During early attempts to start, we recommend keeping the raw water thru hull valve closed until the engine actually starts, to insure that you won't flood the exhaust system (and engine) with water. As soon as the engine does start however, be sure that you open the valve immediately.

2) Remove the spark plugs and turn the engine over a few times on the starter to check for compression. The compression should be enough so as to make it practically impossible to hold your thumb over the each of the spark plug holes while the engine is turning over. If one of two cylinders are weak, it might be that one of the valves is slightly hanging up. This condition will probably clear up as soon as the engine starts. A few squirts of Marvel Mystery Oil in the weak cylinders would be helpful.

3) Check all fuel filters, and inspect the fuel supply by removing one of the plugs in the bottom of the carburetor (preferably the “main passage plug”). Then pump some fuel through the carburetor and into a small glass container, by either working the manual priming lever on the mechanical fuel pump, or by powering the electrical fuel pump.

If the fuel appears clean and free of water, reprime the carburetor, and inspect the choke valve to insure that it fully closes when you pull the choke control in the cockpit. You should then be ready to start, fuel-wise.

NOTE: There is frequently a lot of concern over old fuel. If later, the engine won't start and you think that it is due to old fuel (like if it smells funny and has a strange color), I would suggest that you pump off enough to try it in a lawn mower or other small engine prior to going through the rigors of draining and replacing all the fuel. Not that you may not want to do a lot of heavy maintenance on the fuel supply at some point, but you can probably pick a better time when you're dealing with a lot of other start-up issues. In most cases, the concern over old fuel is overstated.

4) Clean the points by rotating the engine until they are closed, and then run a piece of cardboard between them. Then, with the ignition switch on, flick the points open and closed a few times while holding the main coil lead from the top of the coil about a quarter of an inch from the head, while observing for a good spark. If the spark is healthy (a half inch or better), the engine should be ready to start, ignition-wise.

5) Check for good oil in the crankcase, charge the batteries, and start the engine.

Keep us posted as you dive in...

**smosher** · 03-25-2011, 06:52 PM

I wonder if the po thought it was electrical by swapping out the ignition system.

Wouldn't hurt to see if you have spark.

Whats the condition of the exhaust ?

Steve

**sastanley** · 03-25-2011, 08:36 PM

BR, I was an A-4 newbie in late 2008. Everyone else has provided all the pertinent information.

We are here when you need it.

**Bold Rascal** · 03-27-2011, 09:19 PM

Thanks all for the welcome and helpful tips, and above all the encouragement.
Where to start? When I was first able to last november, I did pull the spark plugs and literally poured 2 qts of MMO into all the cylinders and just let it sit.

Last week after getting my batteries into thier proper places and having replaced some badly corroded cables I eventually got round to cranking her over. All spark plugs were removed and the intake sea cock closed. I had no intentions on getting her fired, I just wanted to turn her over a few times and see if there was any improvement with the compression. There was but still not enough to blow by finger pressure on any cylinder. I had also disconnected a fuel line to see what the fuel supply might be doing, Nothing...

I did hear a slight muffled continuous clicking noise that came on and off with the ignition switch, Not the start button, Electronic fule pump? Still no fuel though.

Folding my 6'4" frame down into a side locker removed the fuel line and pick-up tube fitting. It's lower 6" had a coating of some heavy thick black crusty residue.

Yesterday I hand pumped 12 gallons of some very green old gas out of the fuel tank. I also replaced the paper element inline filter and thoroughly cleaned (Gum-out) the Racor style filter.

Given the observed build up on the pick-up tube I decided to remove the tank and give it a good cleaning. I need to repack the propeller shaft stuffing box anyway. The tank is now out and has a gallon of well swished around acetone in there breaking things down. The pick-up end of the pick-up tube was pretty much clogged and will be cleaned this week. Any insights on tank cleaning?

I also pulled the carburator, It was full of MMO and while draining it out noted lots of sediment. Time to order a rebuild kit from MM.
Any suggestions on what to do with the old fuel? Any tips on cleaning the Carb? I want to get the fuel system right before moving on to the next system.

Thanks.
Mike

Attached Files

**edwardc** · 03-28-2011, 02:06 PM

Mike,

Welcome to the forum!. Looks like you've waded right in and aren't afraid to get your hands dirty. I'm sure we'll be able to get you up and running.

My guess at this point is that are almost certainly multiple stuck valves. Use lots of MMO, repeatedly. If they' re not too bad, you may be able to free them by pressing down (not too hard!) on them with the short arm of an allen wrench inserted through the spark plug holes.

Failing that, your next best bet is accessing the valve bottoms through the valve cover side plate, located behind the carb and manifold.

And, if all else fails, there's always removing the head. But one step at a time. And patience, lots of patience. They WILL come free, it may just take a lot of repeated gentle persuasion (and lots of MMO!).

On a different note, as a new Pearson owner, there's another group you may want check out: The Pearson Sailing Assoc. of the Chesapeake Bay. If you're interested, send me a PM and I'll fill you in.

**Bold Rascal** · 03-28-2011, 10:21 PM

Old gas woes

Not that I want to start a new thread or anything. I'm sure those with more experience than I have already seen how old gas can morph into a less than desireable cumbustible.
Following are photo's taken today of water? collected from the 12 gallons of old gas I pumped out of my 20 gallon tank this past sunday. The container is a clear plastic 1 gallon jug. Sooo glad this stuff separates. much relieved I took the time and trouble to pull the tank and drain it. BTW, the acetone did a great job of breaking down old deposits inside the tank. I drained out the first gallon and swished around another gallon as a chaser. After an hour or so I drained that out and was happy with the result. much clearer but still a little brown, like weak coffee. I now have 3 gallons of white distilled vinager in the tank and will let that work on whatever might be remaining until I power wash it this weekend.
The interior of the pick up tube was cleaned using a small bore riffle cleaning brush.
I lucked out and was able to contact the 2nd (of 4) PO's who had the FW cooling system installed back in 2000, whole nother story but the gent also let me know that the interior of the engine itself had been cleaned out prior to installing the FW system. New fuel lines and all other hoses were installed as well.
I have ordered a Carb rebuild kit and some new side cover gaskets as I plan to remove the intake manifold and get into the valve chamber this weekend. Thanks all for your helpful tips.

PS: I'm a little nervous about rebuilding the carb myself.

Attached Files

**edwardc** · 03-28-2011, 11:07 PM

Originally posted by Bold Rascal View Post

I have ordered a Carb rebuild kit and some new side cover gaskets as I plan to remove the intake manifold and get into the valve chamber this weekend. Thanks all for your helpful tips.

PS: I'm a little nervous about rebuilding the carb myself.

Don't fear the carb! With the exception of the needle valve, it's pretty easy to disassemble and clean. The needle valve and float assembly are a little pesky, and somewhat fragile. You will need to remove them in order to replace the carb's main gasket. The float hinge pin may be a little corroded in place, but it will come out. Check out this thread

Page not found – moyermarine

http://www.moyermarine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4727

on my first foray into the A4's carb. Dave Neptune's info on measuring the float adjustment are invaluable!

Also, as I learned, modern EPA-compliant carb cleaners are a pale shadow of their former selves. Most deposits and varnish found in a dirty carb will require some scrubbing, and jets will require a fine wire to clean them out properly. Carb cleaner and compressed air alone won't do it!

**ndutton** · 03-28-2011, 11:16 PM

In addition to solvent and compressed air, this is the tool I use to clean out the tiny ports in the carb.

http://www.homedepot.com/Tools-Hardware-Power-Tools-Welding/h_d1/N-5yc1vZ1xg1Zash5/R-100341101/h_d2/ProductDisplay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=1

**sastanley** · 03-28-2011, 11:17 PM

Mike - +1 what Ed said. The carb is the first (of many) tasks I tackled the first winter with much trepidation. It must be in tip top shape. You've already started to tackle the big job of making sure the fuel supply is good (which it obviously wasn't)..that is 90% of the battle in my opinion.

There are some small parts, but if you can, have yourself enough workspace and lay it out as you go, piece by piece...it goes back in the same way.

Read up on the tips about things like Permatex on particular sides of the gaskets, which help to insure a seal, but allow possibility for quick disassembly in the future. (i.e. permatex on one side of the manifold/carb flange gasket in case you have to remove the carb in a hurry and hope to not ruin the gasket.) Sometimes, the carb comes off clean, and sometimes it doesn't. I don't put Permatex on the carb side, in case I need to quickly clean & reinstall or install a spare carb without the chance to clean flange surfaces. Like I said, sometimes a clean break, sometimes not.

**edwardc** · 03-28-2011, 11:28 PM

Originally posted by ndutton View Post

... this is the tool I use to clean out the tiny ports in the carb.
http://www.homedepot.com/Tools-Hardw...51&catalogId=1

That's the exact same thing I use!

**67c&ccorv** · 03-29-2011, 07:09 PM

What is your fuel tank made of?

Yet another Used A4 Newbie

Yet another Used A4 Newbie

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