Catalina 30 Engine configuration

[Ajax]

I investigated purchasing a Cataline 30 that came equipped with that diesel, and even the seller admitted that the engine was underpowered, and that the boat couldn't get out of it's own way. He said that a big enough chop on the Chesapeake could nearly grind the boat to a complete halt.

For that reason alone, I think it's worth at least investigating if the A4 will fit into your Catalina.

It's a real shame that the various engines weren't adjusted to fit the boat, instead of adjusting the log tubes to suit the engines.

[TomG]

Neil/Mark,

Instead of letting the "tail wag the dog", how feasible would it be to "cut off the dog's tail and re-attach it at the correct angle" as if you were installing the engine at the factory per Neil's link in the second post? I'm not sure of the particulars on the C30, but how hard would it be to simply cut out the old tube and install a new tube and strut once the engine is in (and using the engine as the guide) rather than try to align the new engine with the existing shaft log/tube?

[ndutton]

Tom, except in the case of swapping like for like, that's the best way to do ANY repower in my opinion. However, having talked with Mark off-list and in his particular case I can assure you such a strategy is beyond his go/no-go threshold for the following reasons:

• The cabin sole at the base of the companionway ladder would have to be cut out for access to the shaft log area and then cosmetically repaired after the job is done.
• The fuel tank under the quarter berth will have to be removed for access to the strut area. It's possible the tank is coming out anyway so it may not be a big factor but the next reason is.
• All the work is to be done in the water.

There's still a chance an A-4 is going to work. It's going to be tight but that's the nature of Catalina 30 engine installations. Right now it looks like he'll just make it. Fingers crossed.

[Mark Millbauer]

My thanks to Neil for going through the time and and work to take measurements of his boat for me. His experience and knowledge is an immeasurable asset as well. I all so appreciate the ideas and info from the other fine folks on this forum.

As Neil states, If the A4 re-power doesn't work out, I seriously doubt I would go the the extent of cutting out the strut and shaft log on this boat. It's not that I couldn't do it, it's just that I don't think this boat is worth the time and effort for me. Now if she was my dream boat, well, that would be a different story.

At any rate, I remain optimistic and should know more after this weekend.

[joe_db]

Step 1 - Ask Catalina if they made 2 versions of the boat or not
My boat has mounts on 14.5" centers for a diesel and angle-irons to narrow them for an A4. C&C didn't want to make different boats.

[ndutton]

Joe,
Are your engine beds a fiberglass fabrication or part of a molded liner?

[Mo]

Neil,
On my C&C the bed rails are laminated plywood that is fiberglassed over and fiberglassed to the hull. There is a piece of angle iron running down along the top of each rail. The mounting bolts go through the angle iron and into the plywood. Those pieces of angle are side bolted to the plywood rail which holds them solid.

[ndutton]

Thanks Mo.

Engine beds of the era took a variety of forms across the industry. Many were as you described, some with, some without the angle iron enhancement. Mark's Catalina has wood stringers completely encapsulated and fiberglassed directly to the hull without the angle iron. With the interior liner of the Catalina 30 it is quite clear to me the engine beds, engine, shaft log and strut were installed prior to the liner. This may help explain the distinct engine installation differences between Shawn's hull #511 and my hull #600, both from the same model year, both with the same engine and both from the same molds. I would venture a guess he has slightly more engine tilt and prop tip to hull clearance than I based on our relative shaft log placements. Mine is about 6" farther aft than his and our engines are in the same location.

Contrary to Joe's C&C information it is also quite clear to me Catalina's stringer spacing was specific to the type of engine to be installed, hence Mark's need for stringer surgery.

As long as I'm being contrary, the Newport 30 engine beds were an integral part of the interior liner. In fact, the engine was bolted down hard to the heavy but hollow fiberglass stringers in the liner, then the entire pre-assembly hoisted into the hull.

[jbsoukup]

sorry guys, I didn't mean to rain on the A-4 parade. I love my little 4 banger. As a fellow cat 30 owner it just seemed easier to re-build than re-power. But of course I don't have all the details. I wish you the best of luck whichever way you go.

[ndutton]

Howzit going this weekend Mark? Is the A-4 repower still on the table?

[sastanley]

the hump

My buddy with number 2276 had an A-4 and re-powered with an M-25 (I think)...he has the big ugly hump now in his settee .

Incidentally, I met "Bob" in Key West..his Catalina 30 (tall rig), approximate hull number 2400 (he wasn't sure) was floating on the same dock where we kept the Farr 30 for the week, and presumably sailed there on its own bottom since the hailing port was not nearby.

I do not think he had an A-4 in his...when I commented on the specs on my boat, he didn't act like his was an A-4 equipped boat..that vintage probably had the M-15, which is only 11HP.

[Jesse Delanoy]

I seem to recall reading that, back in the day, Don Moyer bought a Catalina 30 with a diesel engine, and did not replace it with an Atomic 4 for this very reason.

[Mark Millbauer]

Neil, et al,

I can confirm that the re-power to A4 is indeed still on. After countless measurements I determined that I should be able to make it work. So with saws, sanders, grinders, and chisels at the ready I cut away. Then using my wood engine mock-up and a set of motor mounts I made plywood templates to aid in fabricating the metal stringer cap brackets that will be glassed in to make up the width difference and establish the exact engine angle. The engine will sit a bit lower than the original A4 configuration but I should still have adequate clearance.

The engine is at the machine shop getting the valves ground and crank polished and the oil pump is on its way back from Moyer's machine shop after testing.

The plan is to shorten the shaft and cut a new key way, fabricate a new instrument panel, re-wire, design and build an exhaust system, and hopefully re-route the shift, throttle, and install choke cables and a plethora of other stuff I'm sure.

[ndutton]

Good news Mark. There's an oddity about the Catalina 30 shift cable routing. The shift arm is attached to the port side of the engine and the top section is cut off. The cable approaches from under the cabin sole and its clevis attaches to the lower section of the shift arm. The cable sheath is clamped to the underside of the cabin sole on the edge of the access cover to the stuffing box.

Next time I'm at the boat I'll shoot some specific pictures.

[Whippet]

Our Sponsor's own story w Catalina 30

I happened to notice our sponsor operates a Cat 30 -- and he says no-can-do on the A4 without a lot of structural mods. See last sentence. Not sure if same conditions apply with you.

"Two years ago they sold the Seafarer and bought a 1980 Catalina 30. Don had a bias against widebody production boats, telling Brenda that boats, such as the Seafarer, were much safer in the event that they ever took multiple rolls some stormy night near a rocky shore ... and the rest of the litany. The trouble with the Seafarer was that it was a bit tight for two in the cabin. Brenda says down below they passed each other by sliding sideways. They like to entertain, too, and they felt the space was too tight for that.

They say friends chuckled at them behind their backs when they returned from that first used boat show beaming with the excitement of prospective boatowners. They told everyone about their "new boat" - about how it had 'everything on it and wouldn't need another thing. "Ten years and $10 grand later," Don says, "we realized we'd done everything we could do to that boat except make it bigger. Then one day Brenda walked down into (and it really is walking down into) a Catalina and asked, "Tell me again why we can't have one of these?" Before long the Moyers had a Catalina.

The bad news was that the Catalina had a two-cylinder, 11-hp, Universal 5411 diesel inside. The good news was that the boat was being sold for a very low price because the diesel didn't work anyway and of course Don intended to put an Atomic 4 in it. The bad news is that the engine is working perfectly now. Don discovered that someone had connected the hoses backward, and not even the diesel experts had caught on.

Don says of this engine that it was Universal's first answer to the aging Atomic 4 fleet. But he mocks the thing: "All my friends have bigger engines in their riding lawn mowers," he says. That diesel engine (perish the thought!) is going to stay in the Moyer's boat for awhile, however. Don says, "Whenever I go near it, Brenda throws her body in front of it. She wants curtains, cushions, and so on. So it won't get an Atomic 4 anytime soon." As it turns out, that's just as well. The shaft of the Atomic 4 is at such an angle that repowering with one would cause structural modifications to the boat itself. Even Don doesn't relish that thought."