No start HELP

[goodoldboat]

long time lurker ...Need some help

just replaced all the ignition side ..

points , condenser and coil have huge spark when center lead
is taken off the cap and out to block ...

the engine will turn over but not start ... will not even
breafly start with ether ?


I put my palm over the chock and feel good suction ?

what could i be missing ...

[Dave Neptune]

I assume you just did a tune-up by changing the points, plugs and condenser, true? Did you move the distributor? And are you sure the plug wires are in the correct order? Getting the plug wires wrong is a common mistake,

Also did you remember to put the rotor back in? That is another common mistake.

Was it running fine before the changing of the ignition parts?

Dave Neptune

[K5TOR]

did you check that if the distributor cap is ok and if the finger inside is ok
as stated you checked the rest (ether, suction/ Compression)

i would take the distributor cap off and check it for any fumy business. when i did the first service on my Columbia 36 the metal plate on the finger was worn out but still working.

I hope this helps

Torsten (SV Harmony)

[goodoldboat]

was not running well ... I have been avoiding taking the carb off
but I dnt think i can avoid any longer ..
jsut ordered the rebuild KIT from our sponsor ...

My question is even is the carb is dirty and in need of cleaning would it not start with ether even for a moment or two ?

the aboave assumes i have good spart and I belive i do .

[Dave Neptune]

It won't start on ether if the spark is at the wrong time. You may have a carb issue however it should try to start on ether if everything else is the same as it was.

Can you answer my first post as far as double checking the work you did?

Dave Neptune

[joe_db]

I would go back to basics.
With the fuel and cooling water OFF and maybe even the carb off.
1. Take the plugs out. Check them for being fouled or wet with gas, oil, or water.
2. Do a compression check.
3. Now do a spark check using the coil wire to the block. You should have a nice snappy blue spark.
4. Now do a spark check on all 4 plug wires. You should have a nice snappy blue spark on every one of them.
5. Now do a spark check on all 4 plugs. You should have a nice snappy blue spark on every one of them. Oven mitts or thick gloves are useful for all these steps to avoid shocks.
Now we have proved out compression and spark. Meanwhile note that no water nor oil should be spraying out of any plug holes at any of these steps.
6. Now determine when #1 is on the compression stroke. You can just barely see the valves if you look sideways in the plug hole. Both will be shut on the compression stroke.
7. Get to TDC on the compression stroke. You can sight the plug hole and also the roll pin on the crank will be vertical.
8. Take the distributor cap off. Note which plug wire the rotor is aimed at. This is #1. Label the wires starting with #1. The firing order is 1-2-4-3. Make sure you turn the engine the direction shown by the arrow and see which way the rotor turns, that way you know what order the wires go.
9. Look at the points as you go back and forth from TDC. They should open right at TDC. if not, the timing is off.
At this point we have good compression, good spark, good timing, dry plugs, dry cylinders, and the correct firing order. It will be fairly difficult for the engine to NOT work.
10. Leaving the gas and water off, I would spray a *little bit* of ether in the plug holes, put the plugs in, and give her a try. The engine should fire up and run for a few seconds. Do NOT do this a lot, ether is hard on engines.
If the engine will do this, then next is to move into carb issues, exhaust issues, issues with water getting in that are not apparent, bad gas, bad fuel pressure, and so on.
See arrow below:

[ndutton]

I have one question, yes or no: Did you remove the distributor to replace the points and condenser or at any time since it last started and ran well?

[goodoldboat]

No start

Was running On Friday , went back to the boat next week wednesday and was a no start .

I did notice that the lobe on the points that revolves on the distributor shaft shaft was worn off ... so the points would not open or close .

So far i have replaced the points and the condenser . I have never have adjusted the distibutor.

Prior to the total no start i was having issues with full power at WOT
in forward only .... at idle and reverse the engine DID throttle up
nicely .

The carb rebuild kit from our host is being delivered tomorrow .

To answer Neils/ Daves question NO work was performed prior to the NO start issue and did NOT remove the distibutor .

JOE DB thanks for your step by step analysis it is very thorough and i am going to print it up and bring to the boat . I like the idea of short burst of either into the plug holes to see if it fires up briefly .I will also test for Spark on each individual plug .

I did notice that the plugs are quite dry.

When I take the center wire off the distibribtor I get a nice healthy
1/2 inch spark to the block .

The plug wires are numbered and I never take more than one off at a time ...

I think I have answered all the forums questions ...
Wish me luck .. next trip to boat is Sunday .

[Dave Neptune]

Thanx, that is some good info. One of the BIG problems with these old A4's is exactly what you mentioned and that is the worn cam lobes in the distributor. Once the lobe is worn the "dwell" will not be correct when setting the "gap" and a "dwell meter" is needed for proper spark and coil saturation. This is the reason so many of us have gone to the electronic ignitions as the worn lobes are not needed . Thus once the timing is set the distributor is good for many years of problem free service. Much work has been done regarding this issue on this forum. Do check that the rotor is in place and the centrifugal advance moves freely due to the no start or sputter on ether.

The power loss BEFORE the ign parts were replaced could be that the ign was weak and/or the carb. If it was the carb it could be two things either fuel delivery to the carb or the carb itself gunked up. This is where a fuel pressure gage is a great tool and is suggested by most of us on the forum.

Another source of power loss is the exhaust itself as it plugs up over time and manifests slowly. If the power has been fading "slowly" and the carb looks clean it may be time to look to the exhaust. How long since it was replaced?

Dave Neptune

[Sam]

[QUOTE=goodoldboat;130305]Was running On Friday , went back to the boat next week wednesday and was a no start .

I did notice that the lobe on the points that revolves on the distributor shaft shaft was worn off ... so the points would not open or close .

[Sam]

I screwed up the reply but I think he is referring to the actual plastic lope part on the metal band on the points as being worn down - thusly his points are not opening. At TDC with the ignition on, center distributor coil wire to the block you get a discharge when you open the points [manually - cap off]]. If points aren't opening [completely] and there is a discharge with no start I would double check the installation - wiring sequence, condenser, insulation etc.

If my interpretation is right and the plastic points lope is worn down that much those points have been in there way too long. I would take off the plate and look at the general condition of the advance weights as mentioned, springs and general lubrication. Dave's comment on the distributor shaft lobe is on target as well.

I have an early model A4 with the smaller distributor and wiring going to "points post" through the distributor body. If the insulators are torn or not correct you short right to the distributor body and get no start condition.

Possible I am mis interpreting then disregard.

[goodoldboat]

Hot section of the muffler rebuilt in 2017 , i have lubed the
spring weights under the plate ..

have not been ablt to get back to boat , but the card rebuild kit has arrived .

I am going tomoorow after work to run down JOE DB' list .

MY big question is would a dirty carb stop ignition for a brief moment
while using ether .

[Dave Neptune]

A dirty carb will not restrict firing on ether as long as the ignition is functional.

Dave Neptune

[goodoldboat]

thanks Dave i was afread someone would day that ... i was thinkinfg it any way ...

is a park that is more yellow than blue indictivive of anything ?

[goodoldboat]

question .. will the engine ever go out of timing ... on its own ?