Forward & Reversing Gear troubles

[Tritonfl]

I must have really screwed up!

I was having some trouble with my reversing gear and decided to tighten up the forward gear at the same time. As the ole A4 was still in the boat, I solicited some help beacuse I am not actually a small person.

Well during the process, my assistant went three slots too far clockwise. Then in the process of moving it back two counter-clockwise, we must have moved the thing out of neuteral and now I can't get it back to where I have a proper forward or reverse.

I have tried not less than eight times to remedy the problem with no success. The engine will only go into forward with constant pressure on the shifting lever.

Before I tried to "fix" the problem associated with limited reverse, I still had more than adequate forward propulsion. Now I have neither. Is there a method to get me back where I started. I didn't find a magic fix in Don's Overhaul manual.

[Don Moyer]

Hello,

It sounds as though you ended up getting your forward adjusting collar one or two notches too tight, and you now have to hold your shifting lever "against" the forward clutch engagement to stay in forward. If this is the case, you should only need to back off the collar one notch at a time until you're able to get back into the forward detent. Remember that one notch makes a rather big difference when adjusting the forward clutch assembly.

Under no circumstances should you ever operate in forward for any length of time while having to hold the shifting lever against the forward mode. Doing so puts the bearing in the operating cone (operating like a throw-out bearing) into a constant load, and it was not designed to be used in that fashion. The only time the operating cone is normally under any load is during the instant of time that it takes to get into the detent. From that time on, the bearing in the operating cone "just sits there". The reason this is so important is due to the fact that new operating cones are one of the small number of parts that are simply not available anywhere on the planet, so we need to take care of the ones that we have.

After getting the forward adjustment back to normal, you should then be able to tighten or loosen the 3/4" nut on the reversing brake band adjusting bolt so that you'll be able to engage reverse while retaining a reasonable neutral zone.

There are a few things to remember when adjusting the reversing gear:

1) The forward and reverse adjustments are independent of each other.

2) Always adjust the forward mode first. Then adjust the reverse mode so as to have a solid engagement before running out of rearward travel of the cable system, but not so tight that your neutral zone becomes needlessly small.

3) There is no detent in the reverse mode. You have to hold the shifting lever to the rear if you're planning to stay in the reverse mode for any length of time. The operating cone is not involved in this action, and the reversing brake band is designed to withstand this use.

4) Neutral is nothing more than the space between the forward detent and the place where you engage reverse in the rearward travel of the shifting lever.

Don

[Andy Mck]

Pressure on the shifter in drive .

Hello
I also have encountered the same problem but I have only adjusted the coller one notch as it was a little too tight with adjusting it two notches I have adjusted the adjusting cable shackle both in the forward and backward positions to try to fine tune the presure on the shifter but this did not help the boat will still go forward into drive but growls loudly,when I apply pressure on the shifter this sound disappears and the gearbox sounds quiet like it should.Prior to the adjustment this noise started while I was on my vacation motoring through a weedy area in the Kinston area I got tangled in weeds and I slowed the enging revs while in forward and put the boat in reverse and again into forward to remove the weeds tangled on the prop shaft this cleared the weeds but this was when I first encountered this growling noise when I put the boat in forward and give it some throdle (I dove over the side with a mask on and found nothing fowling the prop or the shaft) I had to drive the boat another 20 miles or so with a bungee coard on the shifter arm to get the full benifit of the drive.I am about 150 miles from my home port and stuck with this bungee coard solution can any one offer any solutions or ideas? New guy with a problem.

[duncan59]

Hi Don,
That reversing assembly is a funny business. (I broke the adjusting collar pin and fixed it with your/Don's help but I will post this fix at a later date with a pic or two).
I thought I had a very solid forward detent, I could not seem to get a decent reverse. At one point I had it, but it clattered horribly until I raised the revs, at which point she calmed into a clear reverse. Yet I did not feel at ease with that and tightened and loosened my reversing band, not getting a happy result.
So then I thought that my forward detent must be TOO tight, not letting the counterspin of the prop take place. I eased off a few notches (anti-clockwise) and finally left my engine with a forward gear that was "sliding" out and the gear shift had to be held forward- which would be wearing out my cone as you describe it. I was done at this point and left the job to seek better counsel.
I now realise my forward detent may still be too tight, as your description says that sliding out of forward suggests this. And yet this was after having already backed off from a more decisive detent (which was no more than I imagine Brenda's two hands could manage).
Is there a "go-all-the-way-in-this-direction-and-then-ease-off-this-much" kind of fix for this problem? Because like one of the previous writers, I don't know where I am in relation to where I should be, either in forward detent or reversing band tension.
Helpful advice welcomed!
Duncan

[Don Moyer]

Duncan,

The most important thing for you to recognize is that there is no "balancing act" required between forward and reverse. These two mechanisms are essentially separate systems. Once you get the forward adjustment correct, DO NOT go back with any notion that you can improve reverse by somehow tweaking the forward adjustment.

There is no detent in reverse so it is always necessary to hold the shift lever in reverse or it will slowly move back into the neutral zone.

Hope this helps,

Don

[Jim Booth]

Hi Don,
I don't know where I am in relation to where I should be, either in forward detent or reversing band tension.
Helpful advice welcomed!
Duncan

I was there once too. As has been suggested before on this list, I would disconnect the cable at the reversing gear, then try to shift into forward by hand with the big shift arm. Start loose, then adjust forward tighter until you have to use your gorilla strength to get it in. That should get you pretty close. When you go above, the shift lever will give mechanical advantage so you shouldn't need your gorilla strength anymore.

[Don Moyer]

In one sentence, the forward adjustment should be tight enough to prevent
clutch slippage at your highest power setting, and reverse should be set
tightly enough so as not to run out of cable travel and yet not so tight as
to reduce the neutral zone to where it's hard to find.

Don

[Springwhit]

Transmission Issue

For over a year I have had no power when transmission is in forward gear. This was assumed to be an engine issue. All engine issues seem to be resolved. I am now of the opinion that my 30 year A4 transmission may be warn out - friction plates, thrust bearing etc - all or one of the parts. This would cause the tranmission to bind when in forward and create enough of a drag to place the engine under a burden to great to operate properly and in some cases be lugged down to shut off. It acts similar to a truck stuck in the mud. Could this be the case? would a new transmission be in order after 30 years of operation?

[Don Moyer]

Springwhit,

It's very unlikely that your transmission is causing your low power condition. In a few rare cases (perhaps twice in 15 years), a transmission has been so misadjusted that the forward and reverse clutch assemblies were trying to engage simultaneously. You can check for this condition by noting the width of your neutral zone. If you have a normal neutral zone (not unusually small), the transmission is probably OK, at least with respect to causing your binding condition.

I'm attaching our dog-eared guide for troubleshooting low power. If nothing shows up within its suggestions, please check back in. It's always interesting to hear how these low power or binding conditions turn out.

Don

[Springwhit]

Don: I am as confident as one can be that is not engine. In the past year I have replaced the entire fuel system, including new carberator, fuel pump and lines. The entire ignition system and disassembled the exhaust system. I have been under the boat to ensure a clean, unobstructed prop and shaft. The engine operates sweetly in neutral AND when I disconnect the shaft from the transmission and put it in foward I have no performance problem. Only with the load of the shaft.

Noting your comment about neutral zone - I would say I have NO real neutral zone. It is very hard to find a spot where the shaft does not turn. There is also a good deal of slop in the shift mechanism. I have adjusted the forward gear several times. In order to avoid slippage, it has to be adjusted so that it is relatively difficult to get into and out of forward. 20 years ago this was not the case. I have not adjusted the reverse gear to more than 2 or 3 times in the past 25 years. To balance the adjustments and try to find a neutral position should the reverse and forward gears be adjusted in oposite directions? Need some advice guidance, I geuss on proper adjustements.

[Don Moyer]

Your very limited neutral zone is a concern. I'll attach our second most dog-eared guide which is the reversing gear adjustment procedure based on our service and overhaul manual. The basic sequence is to adjust forward first until it does not slip at the highest power settings and yet does not take a weightlifter to get the shifting lever into and out of the forward detent. You then adjust reverse so that you do not risk running out of cable travel, but never so tight as to reduce the neutral zone too much. It sounds to me as though your forward adjustment might be one notch tighter than necessary, and your reverse is also needlessly tight. If you have a pedestal-mounted shifting lever, the cable system might need adjusting to be sure the forward and aft travel is centered so that you have adequate travel in both directions.I don't know where your "slop" is coming from, but if it's in the ship's cable and linkage system, that could be part of your adjusting problem. Before spending a lot of time on the cable system, you might disconnect the turnbuckle at the engine and check the adjustment of the reversing gear at the engine first. After the reversing gear itself is properly adjusted, you can more easily deal with the cable system.

Don

[Springwhit]

Forward & Reversing Gear troubles

Don: OK - thanks. I will play with the adjustments this weekend. My 1978 Catalina came out of the box with tiller steering. I did install a pedestall in 1985, but putting the transmission on the pedestall never worked very well, so I moved it back to the original location in the cockpit well. The pedestal (Edison) put a crimp in the cable. I will follow up with the results next week.

[Springwhit]

Forward & Reversing Gear troubles

Well...Don, I spent the day adjusting the transmission, to no avail. I did manage to get a clear neutral zone. I could not get forwrd to adjust so that it would go into forward easily without slipping. It either took a real push to get it into gear or one notch back and it would slip. When it was fully engaged the engine would not power up. In neutral you can get all he RPM's you want, in forward it like an old Model A Ford with the spark retarded.
The prop is clearly fouled as the prop wash exits out the port side of the boat rather than the stern, but the loss or power condition exists even after my cleaning the prop (last September). I suppose now, all I can do is wait for warmer water and clean the prop. After a complete fuel system rebuild, a complete ignition system rebuild, an exhaust system check for obstructions I am at a complete loss

[Don Moyer]

I'm not sure I understand all your symptoms, but it sounds like your rudder may be hard to port which would account for your prop wash coming from that side of the boat.

Don

[Springwhit]

Forward & Reversing Gear troubles

Nope, the rudder is straight. We have had a severe barnacle problem this year in North Florida. The lack of fresh water flowing into the bay (Appalachicola) has raised the salinity level in our river. When the I have very little thrust and the wash comes out the one side or the other indicates pretty bad growth on the prop.