Questions about purchasing used A4 engine

[domenic]

If you tried to start the engine with the water open, and the engine did not start, you pumped water into the engine. Never open the water inlet untill the engine is running. Your engine won't rust apart within the next few weeks.
Sounds like the water inlet is locked open. take the water hose from the engine, and install a water shut off. You can fix (replace the broken one when you do a haul out.)

[lat 64]

Slobber oil everywhere!

If you're going away, then pour anything down the plug holes—olive oil, WD-40, ATF, used crankcase oil. You get the picture, but MMO is best. If you can open up the valve tappet side cover then spray something on the valve stems to soak while you are away, then even better.
We are being adamant about stopping the rust now because it only takes a few hours for a rust to start, and only a small bit of surface rust to stick an engine. Then an owner might give up just at the time when it needs a bit more work to preserve the engine.

hose it down with something and get back to enjoying the sage advice here when you get back on it.

Russ

[Kelly]

I'll just second Gordo's thought that the engine may not be seized. Of course this is just second guessing two mechanics from about 7000 miles away but the big "clunk" when hitting the starter is also indicative of a low battery, bad solenoid or poor connection to ground. I've been through all that.

Wouldn't water intrusion be visible on the dip stick?

No offense to anyone with these comments, I'm just hoping this problem is simpler than it sounds...

[alex.gomes]

Update #2

@Gordo and Kelly, that is exactly what I thought it the beginning. Thinking that maybe I loosened a wire or something while messing around down there (I'm very grabby in tiny places :P) I mentioned this to both mechanics and they both said the same thing. What I'll end up doing, once I get the starter off and dig around the flywheel, I'll know for sure if they were telling the truth. Also, she's connected to shore power, and the battery cables are solid. I'll be on her all day today, so I'll do my best to keep you guys updated.

@domenic, so you're saying the raw water intake valve should always be closed when first starting the engine? From what it seems, the valve has been stuck open for quite some time. Which in turn leads me to believe that this engine has been started with the valve open for the past 6 months or so (no idea for sure). So when I do* get this fixed, I must always close the intake valve before starting? And once she gets running, turn it back on?


@Dave and others, When you say use the starter, do you mean not going through the ignition switch but actually manually using the starter to crank the engine? Thanks again!


Woop! Time to get to work!
I appreciate all the warm welcomes and all the great advice. This is beyond helpful for me.

[Mo]

Alex,
I don't think it will take much to free up that engine and you might be able to leave the starter in place for now. That said, you are going away and the plan at this point should be to pour MMO into the spark plug holes and leave it until you can get back to work on it....just as the guys suggested.

If you have gotten to the point where you can give it a try today go for it. Also, once the engine is running good, there is no need to close the sea cock everytime. Just remember, if at any point it doesn't start withing 3 seconds, close the sea cock then open it once it starts.

That said, I suggest you close all sea cocks if leaving the boat for 2 weeks and if you are in the Hurricane's path ensure all sails are off, boom secured, tiller or wheel secured, lines have chaffing gear and additional lines.

[alex.gomes]

Running without water

Thanks Mo.
Quick question. Dave said it will be okay to run without any water intake. How long is it safe to run her with the water intake off?
I've got all (most) of the oil out (looks mostly black. No milkiness) along with the raw water intake valve off. Im gonna drop some vinegar in her now and come back tomorrow night with some MMO for her. I would like to try and give her a try Sunday night before i leave to see if any of this helps, but I am a bit worried about overheating. Also, I understand that with no water entering the engine, I can't screw her up anymore by trying right? Haha. Newbie question, I know :P
Thanks!
-Alex

[Mo]

Alex...as soon as she starts turn you water intake back on. Running the engine without the water on in not good. It will initially damage the impeller so you need to open the valve once she starts....so engine starts, then you go and turn on your water.

No need to take your oil out yet. There is a possibility that you may have a couple of stuck valves also due to water. Try the vinegar, pour a good bit in there because it might help valves also.

If you want to give me a call I'm home now and will be tonight...902 461 1228 . This is pretty easy to do so don't sweat it too much. I'm in NS Canada and can probably get you on the fast track since you are pressed for time.

[tenders]

> How long is it safe to run her with the water intake off?

I'd say, a minute on a cold engine without thinking about it. Beyond that, I'd wonder why you want to: clearly the engine runs, now fix the plumbing!

[Mo]

Tenders, I think you misunderstood. His engine was seen by a couple of mechanics and they think water got in and seized it. It's a recent seize, so we are trying to free the engine up first.

[JOHN COOKSON]

My $0.02

As soon as she starts turn the engine off and open the water intake valve and check for fuel leakage especially around the carburetor. I've seen gaskets leak on a carburetor on a vehicle that had been in storage for a long time. The car was in my garage. It was a very dangerous situation. We're dealing with an unknown here. Be careful.

TRUE GRIT

[67c&ccorv]

Thanks for the quick reply Dave! Alright so I'm on my boat now, and the oil looks normal. I've began your list of things to do, but run into a bit of a snag. The raw water intake through hull is shut off and on by a gate valve. (The valve that looks like a garden hose spicket) but when I try to close it, it just keeps spinning, both clockwise and counterclockwise. I'm assuming this creates a whole new set of problems, having a stuck open gate valve. I'll keep searching for a solution to this, though I thought I would keep you updated. I will begin the rest of the list as soon as I can figure this new development out.

My opinion on this one is the valve is actually stuck in the "closed" or "partially closed" position and the motor was run without adequate cooling water;

...hence, it seized.

[domenic]

Alex, yes the water inlet must be off when starting. As the engine is cranking over, the water pump is running water through the engine. If the engine does not start, water will back up into the pistons...and you have a problem. When the engine starts, open the water inlet. I understand you can't open or close it at this point. I would fix that first. You can't change the broken one without hauling out to the hard.Take the hose off at the pump, and install a temp shut/open valve.

[alex.gomes]

Update

@67, I took the hose off today and plugged it up, and there was tons of water coming out. Also, I emailed the surveyor who did a recent survey on the boat, and he informed me that it was stuck in the "open" position. She ran before all this happened, for hours on end, and there was plenty of water coming out the back, so I know for sure this wasn't the problem.

[Gordo]

Alex and Dave...That was my point, that the engine ran at point A, and wouldn't turn over at point B. I didn't see where he turned it over and it wouldn't start. Like I said, I don't see the route for the water IF the engine just sudenly wouldn't crank at all.

I would personally start by trying to turn it over by hand at the front of the motor via that roll pin. If it spins...viola not seized. I mean Jeeze mine was sitting for 5+ years and DID have milky oil, ie water in the oil, and it wasn't siezed. I'm just saying start at the beginning. Actually, did anyone ever say WHY they thought it was seized? I'm just hoping for the easy answer for Alex' sake

[alex.gomes]

Quick update

Pulled the starter and flywheel cover off today. Had white vinegar in her all the past two days, flywheel still won't budge. I dropped some MMO in her this morning and heading back tomorrow to try again.
@ Gordo. Both mechanics that came down think it was salt water backup from the exhaust that floated into the cylinders. I don't have a bit of a clue how the engine works in some aspects, so I took their word for it

Do any of you guys have any techniques of trying to turn the flywheel besides hand cranks (can't procure one) or leverage with a screwdriver in the flywheel teeth? Thanks.
-Alex