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Old 10-18-2020, 08:03 PM
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Impromptu Overhaul

After a busy start to the fall with some home renovations, it's time to get the engine stripped down and to the block shop for testing and measuring. This is the engjne fhat came with the boat and had a cracked oil pan. The used one in the boat currently I improperly winterized and it cracked just above the water jacket access plate. I'll be using the oil pan from that one on this rebuild.

The Moyer manual has been very helpful and I am learning a lot about engine parts!

Of course the first bolt to shear off is the hardest to take. One of the accessory drive bolts. Had two more shear on the water jacket cover. Planning on putting studs in for the rebuild.

How does one access the crank journal nuts under the oil filter? I can't fit a socket for a breaker bar in there and the spanner isn't long enough.

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Old 10-18-2020, 10:36 PM
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That oil screen (not really a filter, it only keeps out the lumps) is on 1/8" NPT fittings. Unscrew it and take it off.
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Old 10-19-2020, 09:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Al Schober View Post
That oil screen (not really a filter, it only keeps out the lumps) is on 1/8" NPT fittings. Unscrew it and take it off.
The screen portion itself unscrews?
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Old 10-19-2020, 04:26 PM
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Greg,

Here is a page from the A4 parts catalog showing the oil screen and how it is attached. Avoid the mistake I made of reaching for a 'bigger hammer' for this job. I broke the street elbow where it meets the main bearing cap.

jack.
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Old 10-19-2020, 05:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jcwright View Post
Greg,

Here is a page from the A4 parts catalog showing the oil screen and how it is attached. Avoid the mistake I made of reaching for a 'bigger hammer' for this job. I broke the street elbow where it meets the main bearing cap.

jack.
thanks for the heads up ( as I gently lay the hammer back down...)! Was your intention to have it unscrew at part #17 on the diagram?

Do you know why there is a spring?
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Old 10-19-2020, 05:47 PM
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The screen itself is like a sock over an internal frame. The pipe threads are in the internal frame. The spring (I think there's a washer too) holds the sock against the frame and sorta makes a seal.
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Old 10-19-2020, 06:03 PM
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I was flying blind when I removed the oil screen assembly. I didn't have the Moyer manual or the parts catalog at that point. Mainly I was determined to reduce the weight of the engine so I could get it out of the boat, and I wanted to get at the crankshaft.

I've attached a photo of parts #17 & #18 in the earlier diagram. I *think* I was trying to rotate/unscrew the oil screen & frame assembly where it is attached to the nipple. In the process I applied too much force on the street elbow and sheared it off where it meets the main bearing cap (see top left of the photo).

IIRC, the spring you ask about presses the oil screen against the frame (#14).

Hope this helps.

Jack.
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Old 10-19-2020, 09:18 PM
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The screen and fixture unscrewed with no fuss or persuasion. Thanks folks !

Now... took the idler gear off easily enough but how does one remove the post it's on ? Does this require the stud removing tool?

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Old 10-19-2020, 10:36 PM
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Check out the tool Moyer made for this (description from catalog is below). Also note the warning about pounding the spindle out.

J.

Idler gear spindle puller
This tool is used to pull the idler gear spindle from the block without having to pound the spindle out from behind and risk breaking the block casting. Be sure to remove both of the Ľ-20 Allen-headed set screws from below the spindle before attempting to pull the spindle.
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Old 10-20-2020, 03:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jcwright View Post
Check out the tool Moyer made for this (description from catalog is below). Also note the warning about pounding the spindle out.

J.
Ordered! - now to wait.. being up here in Canada...

it's always a nice chat with Ken!
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Last edited by GregH; 10-20-2020 at 03:58 PM. Reason: speeling
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Old 10-20-2020, 10:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jcwright View Post
Be sure to remove both of the Ľ-20 Allen-headed set screws from below the spindle before attempting to pull the spindle.
Where are these set screws? Im not finding them

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Old 10-21-2020, 09:19 AM
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In your second photo, did you check in the hole directly "above" the spindle? Has this engine been rebuilt before?
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Old 10-21-2020, 10:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jcwright View Post
In your second photo, did you check in the hole directly "above" the spindle? Has this engine been rebuilt before?
The hole circled in read I'll have another look but didn't notice anything in there last night. The hole with the green arrow is for a stud.

I'll try and have another look at the old parts manual as well to see if the helps. The exploded diagram for this spindle and gear don't show any set screws itself.

No idea if this engine has ever been rebuilt but if it was they totally missed the valves or poorly ran the engine - they have over an 1/8" of carbon buildup under the heads!


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Old 10-21-2020, 10:39 AM
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Hello again Greg.

Yes, I was referring to the smaller hole, not the one for the stud.

I also checked the parts manual last night. I wasn't able to find the set screws either on the page that shows the spindle or anywhere else. This reminds me of a much earlier post by Don Moyer where he describes the set screws as a 'booby trap'.

The only other suggestions that come to mind are to get plenty of light down that hole and if necessary clean it out.

Best of luck.

J.
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Old 10-21-2020, 11:14 AM
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Jack:

I couldn't find them either. I did find a part number, but they didn't appear in the exploded view.

The description in the online catalog says this:
Quote:
Idler gear spindle puller
This tool is used to pull the idler gear spindle from the block without having to pound the spindle out from behind and risk breaking the block casting. Be sure to remove both of the Ľ-20 Allen-headed set screws from below the spindle before attempting to pull the spindle.
You would think they shouldn't be hard to find, given the size. Maybe Jerry has a pic which will help.

Bill

Last edited by W2ET; 10-21-2020 at 11:17 AM.
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Old 10-21-2020, 12:59 PM
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Quote:
Be sure to remove both of the Ľ-20 Allen-headed set screws from below the spindle before attempting to pull the spindle.
Here and here?? (see pic) No knowledge, just a guess.

There's cretainly enough meat in the casting there to hide two setscrews at the bottom of long bores. I'd say that would qualifiy as a "Booby trap".
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Old 10-21-2020, 01:28 PM
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yeah I think the right hand hole you marked in the pic Ed is going to need some better light and gentle exploration!
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Old 10-21-2020, 01:39 PM
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I've checked my notes and photos, but the details I was hoping to find on the 2 set screws are not there. IIRC, the 2 screws are in the *same hole*, set one on top of the other. Someone please correct me if I've misremembered.

j.
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Old 10-21-2020, 02:20 PM
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From Don:

Yes, the idler gear shaft is indeed difficult to remove and replace. The first booby trap that you'll encounter is that there are 2 (not one) quarter/twenty Allen-headed set screws in the same hole which will be holding the shaft in place from below.

Most machine shops seem to be able to safely pull and replace the shaft if it needs machining, but please resist the temptation to simply pound it out from the crankcase side of the block. To do so not only damages the inside end of the shaft, but risks cracking the block. We recommend removing the shaft to be re-machined any time that it is noticeably scoured. Otherwise, the bushing (even a new one) will quickly wear excessively.

In terms of a specification for the brass bushing to shaft clearance, our machine shop tells me that a standard ASTM clearance for that type of bearing would be .002. However, Universal recommended a wider clearance (up to .004"), so that a generous amount of oil would flow past the bushing and work its way out to the outer edge of the idler gear to be "flung" over to the small catch basin in the rear face of the accessory drive. You can read more about this system of providing oil for the accessory drive in a Tech Tip on our website called "Accessory drive repair and modification".

As a summarizing note, we have seen many idler gears and shafts come into our shops with quite badly worn shafts and bushings, and while we know that loose idler gears can create quite a "clicking" sound at low RPM, we have never heard of a gear or shaft actually failing in service.
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Old 10-21-2020, 09:51 PM
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There it is!

Ok.. more careful looking and found the idler spindle set screws! For future reference.

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Old 10-21-2020, 09:54 PM
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Since the block is going in for testing and cleaning, I assume ALL the plugs and such nčed to be removed yes? Like the ones in these pics?

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Old 10-21-2020, 11:06 PM
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Yes, remove all those plugs. This will give you or the shop access to the passages. Use similar weapons for cleaning as are used for a rifle barrel - wire brush on a long thin rod.
Original plugs have a cross slot. I changed to plugs with a recessed hex (they take an allen wrench).
Oh yeah, be sure the camshaft bearings are removed before they hot tank the block.
When you get the block back, I recommend you change some of the original fasteners from bolts to studs with nuts. I've done this at the water jacket cover plate, the tappet cover plate, and the carb attachment to the manifold.

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Old 10-22-2020, 09:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Al Schober View Post
Yes, remove all those plugs. This will give you or the shop access to the passages. Use similar weapons for cleaning as are used for a rifle barrel - wire brush on a long thin rod.
Original plugs have a cross slot. I changed to plugs with a recessed hex (they take an allen wrench).
Oh yeah, be sure the camshaft bearings are removed before they hot tank the block.
When you get the block back, I recommend you change some of the original fasteners from bolts to studs with nuts. I've done this at the water jacket cover plate, the tappet cover plate, and the carb attachment to the manifold.
ok that makes sense!

What is the best way to get the cam bearings out? Piece of wood the same diameter and gently tapping with a mallet?

I like the hex plugs idea!

I was thinking about that for the water jacket cover plate, but will do it for the others as well.
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Old 10-22-2020, 01:02 PM
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Thumbs up Cam bearings

good advice from Don of course!
answered my questions about the cam bearings.

https://www.moyermarineforum.com/for...85&postcount=7
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Old 10-23-2020, 09:17 AM
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Memo to self:

When "A" is below "B" with the engine right-side-up, "A" is above "B" when the engine is upside-down.

Duh....

Bill
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