Repowering Bristol 27'

[avandyk]

Hey Everyone,

I'm new to the forum, but I've been browsing the forums for awhile. I'm working on a 1975 Bristol 27. Here's of photo of her: http://www.flickr.com/photos/bristol27/3649357009/

I've been going back and forth on deciding whether to repower with an inboard (since it's already set up for that) or to cut a whole in the lazerette and use an engine well for an outboard. I would much prefer an inboard, but all of my searching/researching has lead me in circles.

My question for you guys is what diesel engine would be the easiest drop in for the old engine I had. Unfortunately, I'm not 100% sure what engine was in there before (the engine was removed when I bought the boat), but I believe it was an atomic 4.

From my research, I've heard a Universal 25 is an easy switch, but maybe someone out there has heard of a better ethod for a Bristol 27.

You can kinda see photos of the engine compartment under the companion way stairs in these two photos (but I can take better photos if needed): http://www.flickr.com/photos/bristol27/3650158670/ and here http://www.flickr.com/photos/bristol27/3650158060/

I hope someone out there has some advice as it will be greatly appreciated!

Cheers,
Andrew

[msauntry]

Is there a fuel tank remaining? If so, you can see if it was gas or diesel by smell, or look for diesel- a fuel return line as well as a fuel pick up line (and vent and fill tube).

If you have the gas tank set up for gas, I'd plop in a rebuilt Atomic 4. Most likely that was what was there before and everything will fit and make life easier for you. It would also be the cheapest option because the boat was once set up for it and you won't have to replace the engine mounts and probably modify your engine compartment to fit a diesel in, as well as replacing a gas tank with a diesel tank.

Universal and Westerbeke make diesels that should fit your mounts in theory, but I often hear of other dimension changes being necessary.

An outboard won't perform as well, but its not the end of the world. Plenty of people sail around with them all the time. I've done it in the past, but I'll stick with inboards for what its worth.

[keelcooler]

Andrew,
Boy you have your work cut out for you. How long was the interior soaking in oil? The gentlemen on this forum will give you good advice.Put a rebuilt a4 in and have 5k left over for beer and crabs.
As said, you may be able to drop in a rebuilt a4 without a new fuel tank,shaft,coupling,prop,exhaust,controls,motor mounts,gauge panel etc.Cutting out your rear end for an outboard well is a big job to do properly and make seaworthy. It looks like you had a Fram filter,standard with an a4 in 1975. Bristol also installed Volvo MD models and Farymans.

[Kurt]

I noticed the engine room dampening/insulation material on the side. I've never see that in an A4 engine compartment as they don't need it due to their quite nature. I'll bet there was diesel in there. Just my guess.

[Administrator]

Check the cap on the fuel fill fitting. Do you see the word "diesel"?

A return line to the fuel tank would be a dead give-away, as others have mentioned.

I'm joining the group betting diesel, although the Bristol owners' website talks about a self-bailing outboard motor well, with the Atomic 4 an option. There is also mention of a 20 gallon gas tank with "inboard models."

Bill

[john meeks]

repower my yankee 30

hi,
i'm sort of in the same situation. i want to replace my sick diesel with an a4. i think that is what it had when new. does it make sense to go from diesel to gas? the motor is mid ship under a bench. how hard would this be?
john meeks

[avandyk]

Wow guys, lot's of great answers and detective work there. I did some more calling around today and found that there was definitely an atomic 4 in there before. I still have the tank for it and it's in pretty good shape. Looks to be the original tank with no pinholes or anything in it.

There is an atomic 4 for sale in the same yard as mine that apparently is still running. I think that may be the easiest swap out for me, but I really wasn't planning on going the "gas" route.

Keelcoolor asked "Boy you have your work cut out for you. How long was the interior soaking in oil?" I don't have a really good answer for that. It could have been a few months, but I've done a lot of clean up since those photos were taken. I will be posting a website with all the photos and project notes of this whole process soon, I'll have to let you know.

Thanks for all the answers, I'll have to let you know where the decisions go next...

[CalebD]

Beta marine makes marinized Kubota diesel engines and several of their models are supposed to be 'drop in' replacements for the A4. Check their web page: http://www.betamarinenc.com/enginemodels.htm
This would be a more expensive option then just installing a running A4 engine but should help the resale value of your boat when it comes to sell your boat.
I would not opt for the outboard well as this kind of customization will definitely lower the value of your boat come re-sale.
Your boat, your choices.
Good luck and let us know where your choices take you.

[Mark Millbauer]

Diesel to Atomic 4?

Most folks take A4's out and replace them with diesels. I currently own a C27 with a good running A4 that I know and maintain. I just acquired a Catalina 30 with a blown 12 HP Yanmar one cylinder. I understand that Catalina only used those little Yanmars as an option for two years and then realized they were grossly under powered, noisy, and shook like crazy. They then went to the more powerful Universal diesels and dropped the A4's.

Question. Especially for you C30 owners: What do you think about re- powering with an A4? I already have several spare parts, know and can easily work on the motor, and if I can find a good used A4, I would save money I don't have. Anybody done this? I would have to change wiring, exhaust, get different gauges, and clean out the fuel tank. But all those items probably need attention anyway. Would a C30 with a good running A4 devalue a 1978 boat more than a good running 12 HP Yanmar?

What say you?

Mark
C27 "Solution"
C30 "Kismet"

[Sony2000]

Since the jury is still out as to what you had in there before, and the considerable amount of work to do on your boat, there is a third choice. Go cheap electric.
I was having lunch with the shipright last summer and we discussed electric convertions. As a result, and adding in my thrifty Scotish metality, I believe, and old golf cart with at least a 48 volt motor, is all that you really need to start.

[ndutton]

Mark,
The Yanmar cannot be the original engine. Catalina used only Universals. ** CAUTION - WRONG INFORMATION. See post #18 in this thread ** Unless you are prepared for a possible start from scratch shaft log and strut reinstallation it might be best to install whatever the boat had originally.

That may work in your favor. I'd guess that in 1978 the A-4 was by far the most common engine installed in the Catalina 30. A quick call to Catalina Yachts with your hull number and you'll know for sure. If it turns out to be the case I'd go with another A-4 in a heartbeat.

Your question about the boat's value in regard to the type of engine installed is simple yet complicated at the same time. The sailboat market in general prefers diesels, we all know that. Catalina used 11 HP diesels for a while in their 30's and it is known to be underpowered so the complication becomes the preference of a diesel vs. the disadvantage of insufficient power. Another complication is whether an underpowered diesel is preferable to a sufficiently powered A-4. The cost of installing a 3 cylinder Universal M25 diesel, the engine Catalina finally settled on will approach the value of the boat.

The simple answer on value is this: what's the value of a 1978 Catalina 30 in perfect, Concourse condition with all the bells and whistles? Probably not that much so concerns over value in choosing an engine should not be the determining factor.

[Mark Millbauer]

Neil,

Thanks for the info.

I had forgotten about the ability to call Catalina, great idea!

My brothers 1978 C30 had the same Yanmar in it when he purchased it about 10 years ago so I assumed it was original. He now has a 25 hp universal and it cost him over $9000 to re-power. He doesn't do his own work and fortunately I do because I will not and can not spend that much on this boat.

Perhaps the little Yanmar conversion was popular here in the Seattle area. Who knows?

I'll continue my research and would appreciate hearing from anybody that has replaced a diesel with an A4 and what steps were involved. For example, as long as they're sound, I see no reason why I would need to replace the fuel tank and control cables. And then of course there is the issue of the motor mount stringer placement and shaft alignment.

Mark
C27 A4 powered
C30 No power (other than the best power, sails of course)

[ndutton]

Off topic but only slightly
Was the boat surveyed as part of the change of ownership or insurance requirement? If so, any mention of lower shroud chainplates, main and knee bulkheads, plywood keel shoe, wood mast compression post, wood spreaders, trailer plugs in the engine harness, check valve in the exhaust line, evidence of window leaks? These are all issues we C-30 owners have dealt with or will in the not too distant future.

[edwardc]

...My brothers 1978 C30 had the same Yanmar in it when he purchased it about 10 years ago so I assumed it was original. He now has a 25 hp universal and it cost him over $9000 to re-power. He doesn't do his own work...

Wow, I'd say he got a deal! When I looked into repower costs 2 years ago, a diesel of sufficient HP alone was about $10k! And another $5-$10k to have it installed, depending on the amount of mods required.

On the other hand, a Moyer-rebuilt A4 was around $5k, and I could do the install myself.

Guess which way I went?

[Sony2000]

This month there was a previously rebuilt used Atomic 4 for sale in the Vancouver BC. region for &600. Check craigslist and a conversation to that effect on this site.