Crankcase Filling with Water

[Mo]

Whippet: The carb needs to removed to facilitate an easier removal of the valve cover. The hole threads were not damaged and the brass plug screwed right in. During my trouble shooting I undertook the bicycle pump pressure test and could hear air escaping through the oil filler tube. The steel pug had corroded from the rear (water) side which left a one eighth inch hole.

Derek
C&C 30
BHYC Oakville, Ontario

Good to know.

[ARA]

Ok, my serial no. is 203182 model no. 5101. That is post 194k. So does this mean I definitely have a plug under the valve cover, or that I might have one? They sure didn't make it easy to work on the carb side of the motor. Not sure if there's even room to get my head in there to see anything. I better add a mirror to my list.

I also got the Schrader valve, gauge, etc together for pressure testing. Hoping to skip out of work a little early tomorrow, otherwise first thing Sunday. Fingers crossed for a bad plug...

[Dave Neptune]

Space

ARA, take a good look and consider an access port to work "through". Many have done this type of "mod" and it really makes any future endeavors that much easier too. My engine is tight in a box however access from the top is good so I remove the manifold when working on the valves. This certainly opens up some space.
Also as I recall (so I'm probably wrong the 60's uknow) not all blocks were equipped with the "plug" in the run of those blocks. Perhaps someone can set this notion straight.

Dave Neptune

[ndutton]

#194185 = no plug

[ARA]

So the results are in. As expected the pressure test was an epic fail. So I removed the valve cover, carb and exhaust manifold in place. I figured if there is no plug, I'll be pulling the motor anyway, so why make the extra work.

Valve cover removed, mirror to see, and there right in the middle is a plug. One push on the pump, and water sprays out of the center of the plug. After removing the carb and manifold, a quick trip to home depot for a new brass plug, and reassembly, pressure test again. Passed with flying colors. Pumped out most of the sludge tonight, and ran the motor with some fresh oil. Still more sludge, and at least 2 or 3 more oil changes tomorrow, but the motor seems ok.

You can't wipe the smile off my face tonight! I have to give a HUGE thank you to everyone here. Without this forum I might have lost months, and who knows how many thousands of dollars. I will post up some pics of the plug tomorrow, I forgot it in the boat. Thanks everybody!

[Administrator]

This was the kind of problem that has doomed more than one boat to a trip to the landfill when its owner gave up on the engine, and thus the boat.

Way to go!

Bill

[Nick duBois]

This was the kind of problem that has doomed more than one boat to a trip to the landfill when its owner gave up on the engine, and thus the boat.

Way to go!

Bill

I can not count how many times this forum and the wonderful folks here have come to my aid over the years. For people with limited mechanical aptitude or limited knowledge of A4 engines this forum is a God send. Keep up the awesome work!!

Nick

[Don Moyer]

Plug in rear wall of valve chamber

In response to an earlier question, while it seems to be generally true that later engines (circa mid 1970s and later) are more prone to have one of these plugs installed, it's unfortunately not possible to predict whether or not you will have one of these plugs based on serial numbers, or any other specific engine markings.

My understanding is that in the 1970s, the inner sand cores of the blocks which formed the water jackets were suspended on something that looked like safety wire. The safety wire would quickly become part of the molten alloy, but it survived long enough to hold the sand cores in place until the alloy was all in the mold. For whatever reason, the safety wire (or whatever the official wire really was called) in this particular location would sometimes survive the influx of molten alloy and leave behind a pin hole where the plugs are now showing up. Universal's solution was to install a plug to seal the pin hole.

I'm a little concerned over hearing of this second discovery of a plug in this location. As I told Derek as he was discovering his plug, his was only the third such plug I heard of in almost 25 years. To hear of a 4th plug so soon on the heals of the third is a little disconcerting.

The good news is that (access issues not-with-standing) it's relatively easy to inspect your valve chamber for the presence of such a plug and to remove and replace it with a brass one, particularly during an engine overhaul.

The best indication a failure of such a plug is a lot of water showing up in the oil pan almost overnight. The volume of water is typically more than you would intuitively expect from a crack. Don

[Whippet]

Great work

Hi ARA

Most pleased that you successfully performed pressure test and that Derek had this recent experience to give you the clue. What is more amazing is that Don has seen this so rarely. Neptune was at your side on this one.

Happy sailing now that you have months ahead.

[tenders]

I don't think this topic has ever come up before on the board, and to have it mentioned, troubleshot, and solved within a matter of days is amazing.

As Bill says, how many engines and/or boats are sleeping with the fishes for want of this $2 part and a 30-second read the situation?

WOW!

[joe_db]

Reminder: After you get some good oil in there, run the engine until it gets HOT to boil off whatever water remains.

[sastanley]

newsletter topic

Sounds like a good topic for the periodic newsletter!

Great work everyone, especially Don..and great pic Derek..

[ARA]

For some reason I can't get my pics off of my phone, I will keep trying.

How many times will I have to change my oil. I did it 7 times yesterday, and 2 today. I have been running the motor about 5-15 min between changes. Going slightly longer with every change. I added some engine flush from autozone for numbers 1 and 4. It is still coming out slightly milky. I am only able to get out just over 2 quarts each time. I have tried sucking through the dipstick, crankcase filler, and a plug on the carb side of the motor. Am I missing something or is it going to take a while? Before I started the oil changes, I sucked out appx 3 gal of sludge, and 2 gal of water, so there was a lot to clean out.

Also, does it matter whether I run in neutral or in gear? Is the oil shared? I added a couple spring lines and ran in gear the last 2 changes. It seemed to get milkier? Yesterday by the end, it looked like oil with swirls in it, today it seemed more milky. I am getting out the same amount I put in every time.

I also noticed that my waterpump I thought looked good is not. I am getting 1 drip every 2 min or so from the lower weep hole. I am just going to order a new one this week, but my question is, if the water is coming from the weep hole, that means its not going into the motor right?

Should I keep changing the oil until it looks clean, or start changing it once a week till clean? Or am I just doing something wrong?

[ARA]

Trying to attach plug photos.

[TomG]

For every "pop-up window", for every time I get "Rick-rolled", for every time I think about Google tracking my every keystroke, I think about this forum and it all becomes worth it.

Thanks for posting this ARA. And a big thanks to Don and Bill for this beautiful oasis in the otherwise hostile Internet Desert.

This forum and a small brass plug... it kind of boggles my mind.