Return to the home page...

Go Back   Moyer Marine Atomic 4 Community - Home of the Afourians > Discussion Topics > Overhaul

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #26   IP: 174.89.8.43
Old 10-24-2020, 05:47 PM
GregH's Avatar
GregH GregH is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Kingston, ON
Posts: 456
Thanks: 276
Thanked 54 Times in 47 Posts
Hot Tanking

When they do this at the shop, does that process work to flush out the fine rust sediment that has built up around #4 cylinder and the end block wall?
__________________
Greg
1975 Alberg 30
Reply With Quote
  #27   IP: 174.89.8.43
Old 10-25-2020, 12:39 PM
GregH's Avatar
GregH GregH is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Kingston, ON
Posts: 456
Thanks: 276
Thanked 54 Times in 47 Posts
When people have had their block hot tanked/cleaned, have you also have them do the oil pan and transmission case?

If yes, how best to get the shifter cross brace out before hand? Or does one just leave it in?
__________________
Greg
1975 Alberg 30

Last edited by GregH; 10-25-2020 at 08:01 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #28   IP: 174.89.8.43
Old 10-25-2020, 08:16 PM
GregH's Avatar
GregH GregH is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Kingston, ON
Posts: 456
Thanks: 276
Thanked 54 Times in 47 Posts
Head Studs

The pics are of the head studs. The threads look like they had pliers used on them before I got the boat. Are these good enough that I can run a die over them to clean up the threads and carry on ?
The second pic is of the thermostat cover studs. On the right hand one there is a groove about 1/2" long on smooth body of the stud. This looks to be the area that would sit in the sleeve of the thermostat housing. So would it be ok?

Name:  IMG_20201025_58888.jpg
Views: 239
Size:  87.0 KB

Name:  IMG_20201025_9932.jpg
Views: 233
Size:  39.9 KB
__________________
Greg
1975 Alberg 30
Reply With Quote
  #29   IP: 32.211.28.40
Old 10-25-2020, 09:18 PM
Al Schober's Avatar
Al Schober Al Schober is offline
Afourian MVP
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Uncasville, CT
Posts: 1,757
Thanks: 10
Thanked 363 Times in 271 Posts
Hate it when folks do that! That's exactly why the Snap-On stud remover is such a nice tool.
I think you'll be fine if you run a die over those threads. On reinstall, don't use a pipe wrench. At least, just jam two nuts together to seat the stud in the block. I install to 35 ft-lb - if there's a problem, find it as early as possible.
After the head is in place, use some lube on the threads and between the nut and washer. I use the silvery anti-seize from Permatex. Some black moly grease would be an alternate. Anything is better than nothing.

No need to tank the oil pan or transmission housing. Personally, I recommend changing the reversing gear cross shaft with the stainless one from our host. Do those two seals as well as the aft seal while waiting for the block.

Last edited by Al Schober; 10-25-2020 at 09:23 PM.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Al Schober For This Useful Post:
GregH (10-26-2020)
  #30   IP: 174.94.11.120
Old 11-01-2020, 03:13 PM
GregH's Avatar
GregH GregH is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Kingston, ON
Posts: 456
Thanks: 276
Thanked 54 Times in 47 Posts
Idler Spindle

The Moyer idler spindle remover worked like a charm. But, ummm, how do I remove the threaded portion from the spindle? I can't back it off with just hand pressure and I don't want to use anything that would damage it.

Name:  IMG_20201101_55649.jpg
Views: 208
Size:  33.6 KB
__________________
Greg
1975 Alberg 30
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to GregH For This Useful Post:
TimBSmith (11-01-2020)
  #31   IP: 98.117.4.37
Old 11-01-2020, 06:35 PM
Don Moyer's Avatar
Don Moyer Don Moyer is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 2,808
Thanks: 0
Thanked 146 Times in 95 Posts
Idler shaft puller

Hi Greg,

Hopefully you didn't tighten the inside part of the puller too tightly, in which case you should be able to wrap some protective material around the spindle and hold it gently with a pair of vise grips. Thin cardboard, like a piece of file folder material should work. I always held the spindle on the smaller end that goes into the block so that if I ended up with any dings I could take a small file and dress that area up a bit. Don
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Don Moyer For This Useful Post:
TimBSmith (11-01-2020)
  #32   IP: 192.186.122.174
Old 11-02-2020, 09:56 AM
GregH's Avatar
GregH GregH is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Kingston, ON
Posts: 456
Thanks: 276
Thanked 54 Times in 47 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Moyer View Post
Hi Greg,

Hopefully you didn't tighten the inside part of the puller too tightly, in which case you should be able to wrap some protective material around the spindle and hold it gently with a pair of vise grips. Thin cardboard, like a piece of file folder material should work. I always held the spindle on the smaller end that goes into the block so that if I ended up with any dings I could take a small file and dress that area up a bit. Don
Well I thought I put it on only finger tight.. but my assumption is the screwing down the outside section tightened the inside part.

I'll try the carboard on the THIN section tonight.

Note: upon reflection - I did not hold the inner screw steady with a wrench while screwing down the outside section- so it tightened it down the inner screw way too much.
__________________
Greg
1975 Alberg 30

Last edited by GregH; 11-02-2020 at 09:59 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #33   IP: 192.186.122.174
Old 11-04-2020, 05:46 PM
GregH's Avatar
GregH GregH is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Kingston, ON
Posts: 456
Thanks: 276
Thanked 54 Times in 47 Posts
Thumbs up +1

Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Moyer View Post
Hi Greg,

Hopefully you didn't tighten the inside part of the puller too tightly, in which case you should be able to wrap some protective material around the spindle and hold it gently with a pair of vise grips. Thin cardboard, like a piece of file folder material should work. I always held the spindle on the smaller end that goes into the block so that if I ended up with any dings I could take a small file and dress that area up a bit. Don
Well that did work - using the narrower section and I did have to gently dress up the two spots.

+1
__________________
Greg
1975 Alberg 30
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to GregH For This Useful Post:
sastanley (11-04-2020), Surcouf (11-05-2020)
  #34   IP: 192.186.122.174
Old 11-05-2020, 03:38 PM
GregH's Avatar
GregH GregH is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Kingston, ON
Posts: 456
Thanks: 276
Thanked 54 Times in 47 Posts
ok on Monday I am taking the following into the shop (pardon my not knowing the correct terms here):

Block
- magnaflux test and from the result of that if good
- honing cylinders
- removing cam and idler bearings
- hot tanking
- prep/level surface? (letting me know how much removed in case need another head gasket)

Head
- Prep/level surface

Manifold
Pistons
Cam
Crank
- so they can measure clearances for me as I don't have the right tools nor experience for that. - need to provide specs from manual.

What am I missing?
- Should removed bearings be tossed or can they be reused?
- Should clearances be done before anything else but the magnaflux as the bearings will still be in for that?
- What else....
__________________
Greg
1975 Alberg 30

Last edited by GregH; 11-05-2020 at 03:45 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #35   IP: 32.211.28.40
Old 11-05-2020, 08:33 PM
Al Schober's Avatar
Al Schober Al Schober is offline
Afourian MVP
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Uncasville, CT
Posts: 1,757
Thanks: 10
Thanked 363 Times in 271 Posts
Take the reversing gear cover. Have them drill/tap the manifold side for the Kaminsky mod.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Al Schober For This Useful Post:
TimBSmith (11-06-2020)
  #36   IP: 192.186.122.174
Old 11-06-2020, 09:50 AM
GregH's Avatar
GregH GregH is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Kingston, ON
Posts: 456
Thanks: 276
Thanked 54 Times in 47 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Al Schober View Post
Take the reversing gear cover. Have them drill/tap the manifold side for the Kaminsky mod.
Right!
Forgotten about that one.

https://moyermarine.com/techtip001-2-2-2-2-2/
__________________
Greg
1975 Alberg 30

Last edited by GregH; 11-06-2020 at 10:02 AM.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to GregH For This Useful Post:
TimBSmith (11-06-2020)
  #37   IP: 192.186.122.174
Old 11-17-2020, 05:13 PM
GregH's Avatar
GregH GregH is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Kingston, ON
Posts: 456
Thanks: 276
Thanked 54 Times in 47 Posts
Alternator Fan Direction

Direct drive A4. Flywheel end I'm designating as "front"...

When standing at the "front" looking at the alternator, which direction do the aux drive and alt pulley spin? Counter-Clockwise?
__________________
Greg
1975 Alberg 30
Reply With Quote
  #38   IP: 184.144.88.120
Old 12-31-2020, 01:59 PM
GregH's Avatar
GregH GregH is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Kingston, ON
Posts: 456
Thanks: 276
Thanked 54 Times in 47 Posts
Piston & Cylinders

The shop has called and said that the cylinders need boring. Such that I'll need +0.020 pistons for it.

Now I am very much a Noob at this. What is the difference between needing a 020 piston versus needing 020 rings on a standard piston?
__________________
Greg
1975 Alberg 30
Reply With Quote
  #39   IP: 155.186.122.195
Old 12-31-2020, 04:32 PM
Dave Neptune Dave Neptune is online now
Afourian MVP, Professor Emeritus
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Lake Arrowhead Ca.
Posts: 4,362
Thanks: 511
Thanked 617 Times in 428 Posts
Greg, piston clearance is important. Your pistons in a .020" bore would slap around and destroy themselves and/or the bores.

How much taper was reported to require the over bore?

Dave Neptune
Reply With Quote
  #40   IP: 184.144.88.120
Old 01-01-2021, 11:05 AM
GregH's Avatar
GregH GregH is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Kingston, ON
Posts: 456
Thanks: 276
Thanked 54 Times in 47 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Neptune View Post
Greg, piston clearance is important. Your pistons in a .020" bore would slap around and destroy themselves and/or the bores.

How much taper was reported to require the over bore?

Dave Neptune
Sorry for not understanding.

If using +020 pistons, does that mean they need +020 sized rings on them? Or are the +020 sized rings meant to be used on std sized pistons?

I do not have the details yet about the bore.
__________________
Greg
1975 Alberg 30
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to GregH For This Useful Post:
TimBSmith (01-01-2021)
  #41   IP: 155.186.122.195
Old 01-01-2021, 11:45 AM
Dave Neptune Dave Neptune is online now
Afourian MVP, Professor Emeritus
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Lake Arrowhead Ca.
Posts: 4,362
Thanks: 511
Thanked 617 Times in 428 Posts
Yes the piston and rings are sized to the bore. You can go .005" over on the rings when a "clean -up" bore is done, which means the piston is .005 under which is somewhat acceptable.

Again how much taper (wear) is there in your bores?

Dave Neptune
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Dave Neptune For This Useful Post:
TimBSmith (01-01-2021)
  #42   IP: 184.144.88.120
Old 01-01-2021, 12:45 PM
GregH's Avatar
GregH GregH is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Kingston, ON
Posts: 456
Thanks: 276
Thanked 54 Times in 47 Posts
I won't be able to find out the taper until the business opens again next week. Will try and get some more info.

They by standard practice prefer to replace all bearings so they are fresh. None of the bearings, journals, etc need to be different size than standard I'm told. Of course I'm of the mind to keep the bearings, etc if that's the case. Or is that the wrong thinking ?
__________________
Greg
1975 Alberg 30
Reply With Quote
  #43   IP: 155.186.122.195
Old 01-01-2021, 12:55 PM
Dave Neptune Dave Neptune is online now
Afourian MVP, Professor Emeritus
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Lake Arrowhead Ca.
Posts: 4,362
Thanks: 511
Thanked 617 Times in 428 Posts
If it is apart and std bearings will still work GO $ THE NEW, worth the money!

Get the bore info, it may not really be necessary to bore. Perhaps a clean up hone will do it and save the pistons.

I am curious as to why they say go .020" over, or is it they "happen" to have those pistons on the shelf and need to "sell" them. Or there is a lot of damage in one of the bores.

Do you know about where the compression was before dis-assembly? And why was it tore down in the first place. I have not read the entire thread .

Dave Neptune
Reply With Quote
  #44   IP: 100.36.65.17
Old 01-01-2021, 12:58 PM
edwardc's Avatar
edwardc edwardc is offline
Afourian MVP
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Laurel, MD
Posts: 2,339
Thanks: 91
Thanked 408 Times in 273 Posts
Related question to group:

What drives the choice between boreing and oversize pistons vs sleeving and standard pistons?
__________________
@(^.^)@ Ed
1977 Pearson P-323 "Dolce Vita"
with rebuilt Atomic-4

Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to edwardc For This Useful Post:
GregH (01-01-2021), TimBSmith (01-01-2021)
  #45   IP: 155.186.122.195
Old 01-01-2021, 01:22 PM
Dave Neptune Dave Neptune is online now
Afourian MVP, Professor Emeritus
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Lake Arrowhead Ca.
Posts: 4,362
Thanks: 511
Thanked 617 Times in 428 Posts
edward, my guess would be cost and the integrity of the material behind the bore. In a fresh water cooled engine I would probably go for the bore and the little extra torque that the displacement would yield. In a raw water (saltwater) cooled engine I would consider the sleeves only if there was still good integrity in the threads for the studs to get a good strong bite. If the block is breaking down I would consider a "block" from MMI and use all the parts still good from the old engine or go oversize on all of the studs and sleeve the block

I think availability of parts and personal confidence would be the consideration factor, while looking at the finances.

Dave Neptune
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Dave Neptune For This Useful Post:
ronstory (01-01-2021)
  #46   IP: 192.186.122.174
Old 01-04-2021, 04:59 PM
GregH's Avatar
GregH GregH is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Kingston, ON
Posts: 456
Thanks: 276
Thanked 54 Times in 47 Posts
Has anyone heard of a shop wanting to replace the valve lifters/tappets just as a matter of fact?
Is this one of those things that since it's a rebuild best to just replace things?
__________________
Greg
1975 Alberg 30
Reply With Quote
  #47   IP: 155.186.122.195
Old 01-05-2021, 12:08 PM
Dave Neptune Dave Neptune is online now
Afourian MVP, Professor Emeritus
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Lake Arrowhead Ca.
Posts: 4,362
Thanks: 511
Thanked 617 Times in 428 Posts
Unless the lifters are damaged don't touch. The lifters wear to match the cam and should only run on the "cam lobe" it was installed in. They are now a matched set in any engine!

The cam and lifters are NEVER replaced separately by any mechanic worth his/her salt!!!

Note, I am now very skeptical of your shop choice and there knowledge.

I would suggest that once you get the taper info you find another shop to check the bores for necessity of a fresh bore. These are a slow turning low compression engine which is far more forgiving to bore tolerances.

Dave Neptune

Last edited by Dave Neptune; 01-05-2021 at 12:14 PM. Reason: more info
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Dave Neptune For This Useful Post:
Mo (01-05-2021), W2ET (01-05-2021)
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Video: A4 Overview After Overhaul captainmurph Overhaul 0 09-08-2020 01:04 PM
An Impromptu Overhaul GregH Overhaul 73 08-06-2017 08:10 PM
When to overhaul? ILikeRust Overhaul 11 03-15-2017 10:53 AM
First time overhaul of A4 Joslir Overhaul 7 01-14-2008 02:36 PM
Replace it? Overhaul it? Overhaul it! Motor John Overhaul 0 08-15-2006 02:41 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:11 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.


Universalģ is a registered trademark of Westerbeke Corporation

Copyright © 2004-2021 Moyer Marine Inc.

All Rights Reserved