Engine won't start

[RhodeRunner]

(moved from different thread)
I bought my Catalina 30 last year. Engine started up while on the hard with the owner. Now in the water it won't start.

New Fuel filter
Changed oil
New spark plugs
New fuel pump
Disassembled and cleaned Carburetor
Disassembled and tuned up starter.
New charged battery
New Coil
Thought it might be electric ignition - changed back to points. good sparks
Friday---Progress, engine started to turn over, but didn't pick up. Though it might be carburetor, which has excessive amounts of gas in it.(more than just a puddle) Dissembled and looked at carburetor again. Now Sunday wont even ignite. Still has good spark. Help. I need to move this boat out of this slip.

Small Update: Engine cranks over for a moment. I didn't have time to adjust the choke much before it dies again. I have been able to repeat this a couple times.

At initial purchase, I did replaced the corroded sparkplugs, changed the fuel filter and oil. The boat had been on the hard for a couple of seasons.

Because the engine wouldn't start and because I didn’t have much info to diagnose the problem and looked to resolve one system at a time.

Pulled the starter and cleaned and confirmed it worked along with the solenoid on the bench. Starter moved the cylinders, and was able to feal pressure at each of the cylinder. Although #3 was weaker than the others. Did not gauge the pressure.

Salt water valve is OFF and has been for all attempts. Fresh water system is installed.

Noticed leaking at the coil head, with week sparks. Replaced coil.

Weak sparks continued. When checking the multimeter, the voltage in the system dropped to around 10v when the eclectic ignition was connected. This suggested that there was an issue with the ignition. The previous owner had said that he did not trust the electric ignition much, and that it only liked the batteries to be at full charge. This lead to replacing the E ignition to traditional points. These gave a good spark at plug.

Replaced fuel pump because the aftermarket fuel pump installed near the tank was unreliable. Installed an engine mounted Facet

Thanks for anyone's input. Admittedly this is a new area for me, any guidance would be appreciated. -RR

[RhodeRunner]

Hi Dave - thanks for the new thread advice.

I did have a look at the distributer. the weights are free and moving nice. There is a spring that will need replacing soon.

I went through the process of setting up #1 TDC per the diagram: https://moyermarine.com/splug_wire_routing/
which has #1 flywheel end. is the diagram incorrect?

Thanks for your responses

[Dave Neptune]

Sorry, I got my post mixed. #1 is at the flywheel end. Now you need to determine the distributor position. The position shown is only correct if the distributor was NEVER removed and or when removed it was put back in the same "factory" position which is not necessary. This position is not always the same.

Turn the engine to where you are on the compression stroke AND #1 is at TDC! Then look to see where the distributor rotor is pointing, that is where the number one plug wire goes.

The distributor can be in almost any tooth of the gears when being replaced and if it is number one can point almost anywhere and still be set correctly. You just need to place #1 where the rotor is pointing then follow the firing order for the rest.

Dave Neptune

[RhodeRunner]

I did early on look to see if the #1 was TDC, I will double check. I don't have good access to the flywheel.

[RhodeRunner]

Had a double look. set up correctly for #1 TDC. Rotor pointing away from engine and in alignment with the tab.. FWIW when I first looked at this, when still an electric ignition the rotor was at the #2 position for #1 TDC, and I changed it.

[jcwright]

Hello RR.

Your earlier post stated: "Small Update: Engine cranks over for a moment. I didn't have time to adjust the choke much before it dies again. I have been able to repeat this a couple times."

Have you checked to see that the choke is operating correctly? See this thread for more info, especially post #6:

https://www.moyermarineforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4997

I'm curious why you "didn't have time" to adjust the choke before the engine died. Is the choke cable not near the ignition switch? Are you using an ignition switch in the cockpit or a 'remote' starter near the engine?

jack

[Dave Neptune]

If it ran with the "electronic ign" then the wires should be in the same spots as before unless you moved the distributor!

Top Dead Center of #1 cylinder does not MEAN the rotor should point away from the block. That is only true from the factory. The distributor has probably been moved more than a few times since delivery and it is not necessary to reinstall pointing away. Most mechanics will drop the distributor back in while #1 is on TDC and start the wiring where the rotor points as it can point in many directions depending on how it was dropped into the "gears teeth".

Go back to where the wires were and see what happens, I think it will work if you did not remove the distributor, did you?

Dave Neptune

[ndutton]

Had a double look. set up correctly for #1 TDC. Rotor pointing away from engine and in alignment with the tab.. FWIW when I first looked at this, when still an electric ignition the rotor was at the #2 position for #1 TDC, and I changed it.

1. Did the engine ever run with electronic ignition before you made this change?
2. Was the distributor EVER removed since it last ran?
3. Exactly how did you determine the engine was set at #1 TDC? Please provide as much detail as possible.

I am soooo thinking this is a timing problem and from what I'm reading I'm not alone.

[RhodeRunner]

Jack: I working with the remote start and manually adjusting the choke right in the engine compartment.

Dave: now that I am working off the points and not the electronic ignition, I would think it would be best to align the rotor with the plug leads?

[Dave Neptune]

You have gone from one style of ignition to another which means you need to set the timing!

You changed the wires which changes the timing per your statement. To fix you need to index the distributor IE set the timing. To set the timing you need to bring the crank shaft to the compression stroke of #1 cylinder at TDC. Then index the distributor to factory setting if you wish or start @1 wire where the rotor points to get the wires right then you "close" enough to set the timing.

One more thing is did you remove the distributor to do the change over or did it still set in the engine?

Dave Neptune

[Surcouf]

just in case ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ysFGcm8oNo&t=284s

[sastanley]

Agree with Neil, Welcome RhodeRunner! I ended up cutting a hole (hole saw) in the settee so i could get a crank handle into the flywheel and see the roll pin. There are also several other tests to check for TDC..A small screwdriver or maybe a pencil in the plug hole and check when it is at its highest point. Neil also has a cool trick with a balloon on hollowed out plug threads.

I had my engine quit on my way out for a sail a few years ago..Somehow the timing got off..I rotated the dizzy gingerly while my crew cranked the starter (while we were still out sailing) and it eventually ran for the ride home.

Also..as a new boat owner a tip we always share (I will also admit I did not read every previous response), do not crank for too long (more than several seconds) with the raw water intake open in non-start situations..the muffler will fill with sea water and backfill up the hot section into the manifold/cylinders. My motor is down on compression in cyl #4 from the PO doing this more than once.

[ndutton]

Thanks Shawn. Now, if I could only motivate RhodeRunner to answer my questions I (and others) might be able to offer some help.

[sastanley]

Sometimes it takes a few days...hopefully he'll get back to us!!

[JackConnick]

Setting rotor position on distributor

I'm having a similar problem. I was fixing the water jacket inspection plate and had to remove the distributor. I screwed up and didn't mark the rotor position. I have a magnetic ignition, boat ran fine before I tryed to "fix" it...

I watched Moyer's video. I went through trying to find TDC on #1 cylinder and then pointing the rotor away from the block. Still wouldn't start. Tried moving the distributor back and forth and the best I could get was a few small backfires.

I guess I didn't have TDC on #1 figured out correctly. I couldn't feel the compression very well while turning it. Can't see the piston and not sure I understand the pencil trick very well. Thinking of getting my compression tester gauge and seeing if I can see it then...?

Is there something different I need to do if I have an electronic ignition? Any ideas on getting the rotor in the right position would be appreciated.

TIA,
Jack