Head Gasket Replacement

[Tom B]

Update

I finally got back to the head job. I had to spend some time re fabricating the exhaust as it had to be done and in before I could get the head back on. Today I got the exhaust in and got to the head.

I picked up a spacer set up and a new thermostat from Don to update the thermostat...and since one of the the thermostat studs had come off already I figured the job was 1/2 done already. Well I got a little heavy handed and ended up breaking off the stud. After a few choice words for myself for not bothering to run home for the propane torch, I was able to make a quick run to the local hardware and use the successive drill method to drill out the out stud base and re-tap the head. Then after tweaking the stud a little with my ballpean hammer, I was able to get the head on. So, after assembling everything and getting all the bolts, the thermostat and alternator on I was ready to start torquing.

As I was torquing the first bolt, the stud broke off ... way more cursing. I had rented a torque wrench from the local hardware which turned out to be a very bad mistake. It had a 25-250 ft lb range and I suspect that it has been through a life of rough treatment. I am pretty sure that it was not calibrated and as a result I was applying way too much torque

I pulled the head back off in a jiffy and drilled out using the same method I did for the thermostat stud...

Now I need to order a new stud from Don and will also probably give him a call about whether I should bed the stud in JB weld instead of using the blue locktight as I have for the other studs that came out.

Think I'll buy one now.

Onward....

Tom B

[Tom B]

DIsappointment and frustration...

Well I have successfully reassembled my engine.I got the replacement stud in and torqued everything down fine. Then got ready to run her up to re-torque the head bolts a few times...but no love.

I try cranking it, but nothing. Has spark. Manually set to TDC and then, since I did not have a timing light handy, I opened up the distributor and rotated it until the points opened, then tightened it down.

Still no love. I little burst of ether seems to indicate that she was trying...but nothing of significance, even with a little fuel poured into the carb inlet...

I guess I will be attacking the fuel system next, but yesterday I was so disappointed I just closed up the engine compartment and left due to fatigue and frustration.

I need to figure out a way to clean out the filter (I think it is an very old Rancor, but it could be a fram) without flooding the bilge with fuel. But I think I can figure that out OK. But I have to admit this is looking like an endless mess...

Well I did say I wanted to get familiar with the engine...though with the hope of having her out by yesterday and a perfect sailing week end here in Puget Sound I am just totally bummed out.

[roadnsky]

Hold Fast

Well I did say I wanted to get familiar with the engine...though with the hope of having her out by yesterday and a perfect sailing week end here in Puget Sound I am just totally bummed out.

Tom-
We're feeling your pain. We've all been there!
Some of us more times than others...

Hang in there. There are more great sailing days ahead. Made even better knowing your AUX is in reserve and trustworthy.
These are old machines and it can take time to repair years of neglect.
Plug away. Take some breaks. (Beer helps )
Plug away some more.
Before you know it, sometimes when you least expect it, success.

Honest, the reward is much greater than the frustration!

[rigspelt]

Yup - time to refocus. If it helps, I'm sitting here feeling the same thing. Today I confirmed that I have to remove a new seacock that I thought was job-done. It appears to be defective. Bummed? You bet - friends' boats are all going back in, and the season is too short around here for this kind of setback.

But - better safe and shipshape in the long run. And after all, it's only a hobby. One's health, family and friends are far more important than a boat that eventually will get fixed up. So, I take a deep breath, refuel with hot supper, and head back to do a little more. Eventually it'll get done.

Update: After I wrote this, I went to the boat, tackled that expensive seacock, got it out without damaging the boat or the seacock, and just need to find a replacement. Feeling much better now. Hope your project takes a better turn too.

[Don Moyer]

Tom,

Assuming that you have enough compression on each cylinder to force past your thumb no matter how hard you press, with fuel lying in the carburetor intake throat, and a good secondary discharge from the coil, my best guess is that your timing isn't set where you think it is. If I were on your boat, I'd go through the number one TDC business again and rig a 12 volt continuity checking light across the primary terminals of the coil to be sure the points are opening precisely at TDC of the first cylinder.

In addition to the words of encouragement from your other fraternity brothers, I would only add that you'll be a far better person when you finally figure out what it is that is currently keeping your engine from springing to life.

Don

[tenders]

> little burst of ether seems to indicate that she was trying

My advice to you is, leave the ether at home. It will never be the missing link that helps you troubleshoot the real problem. I almost blew myself and my boat partner out of the water with this stuff. Maybe it's fine for automobiles, or with the engine in your garage, where the fumes can dissipate...but in a boat there's nowhere good for them to go.

[Tom B]

Regrouping...

OK....I'll take a step back. Yesterday I checked the gas line all the way to the carb...and it was fine. I was going to pull off the carb and rebuild it but could only get one of the mounting bolts off. So, I was contemplating pulling off the entire manifold, just to get at the carb for a rebuild. But from what you said, I think I will take a step back, pick up a timing light and see if that is the problem. Just to be sure, a little gas pured into the carb should allow the engine to start, even if the carb is a bit messed up. If that is the case, then I will check the compression with the thumb test and go get myself a timing light before bothering to tear the engine apart even more.


Also, I know that the firing order is 1-2-4-3 but I want to make sure that I have the rotor rotation correct...clockwise...right?

Thanks for the idea Don and everyone for their support.

Tom,

Assuming that you have enough compression on each cylinder to force past your thumb no matter how hard you press, with fuel lying in the carburetor intake throat, and a good secondary discharge from the coil, my best guess is that your timing isn't set where you think it is. If I were on your boat, I'd go through the number one TDC business again and rig a 12 volt continuity checking light across the primary terminals of the coil to be sure the points are opening precisely at TDC of the first cylinder.

In addition to the words of encouragement from your other fraternity brothers, I would only add that you'll be a far better person when you finally figure out what it is that is currently keeping your engine from springing to life.

Don

[Tom B]

Success...sort of.

I took Don's advice and yesterday got the timing right and was able to get her to run, but only by pouring gas into the carb. Since I had already checked the fuel flow to the input to the carb and it was fine, I started to pull off the carb. Everything went OK except for the rear bolt holding down the carb...and it was too small for my 1/2 in wrench but too big for my 7/8...and no 15/32 wrenches were to be found. Fortunately a friend with a wide assortment of wrenches came to the rescue with a tight 1/2 that worked an we got it off.

As you can see from the pics below, the inside of the float chamber was all gunked up..and these pictures were taken after it had dried up. I am sure that I could get this old one cleaned up and working. But, since it is an older version with an adjustable main jet, with a needle valve, which I think may be trouble in the long run...I am gonna get a new one from Don and put it in next week end...and maybe even go sailing! Then rebuild the old one and keep it for a back up.

But, of course, only time will tell....

One more thing...When removing the flame arrestor the vent tube from the crankcase that vents into the flame arrestor broke. It's an odd little piece of rubber tubing. Any idea what I should use to replace it?


I'll keep everyone posted...and thx for all the help and encouragement thus far!

[roadnsky]

Tom-
Congrats on making progress!
While you're changing out the carb, why not also put in a PVC Crankcase Vent kit instead of replacing the hose for the flame arrestor? Either from MMI or Indigo.

If not, maybe ask Ken if he'll sell you the hose. They have replacement parts for the Flame Arrestor.

[sastanley]

Tom, I agree with roadnsky. Add the PCV system. It is $80 from Indigo and works well..especially if you are already removing the carb to replace anyway.

Moyer Marine has a kit as well, but I think it comes as part of a larger package, so the price is higher.

[Tom B]

OK...done.

[exodus]

me too

Help!
I also seem to have a blown head gasket. However, so many things go wrong that I'm getting paranoid about diagnosing anything. Anyway, I tried to start the engine, and nothing doing. OK, check fuel, spark and compression. Guess What? No compression in 3 of the 4 cylinders. The one closest to the coil reads 150 psi, the others are zippereno. I should mention that I have a vee drive, and the engine is therefore mounted "backward" and pointing down at about 15 degrees. When I found water in all cylinders, I put in the MMO, changed the oil, and blew out the cylinders. Note: blowing out the cylinders without putting a cloth or something over the holes is not recommended, as you and the cabin, and even topsides will receive a powerful spraying with a mixture of MMO and water! Live and learn. Anyway, I also drained the manifold by removing the small plug on the side of it, towards the end that is nearest the coil. I guess about 12 oz of water came out, making me very nervous. After my shower from the engine, I cranked it again and the intake valves all go merrily up and down, even without actually running the engine. Do you guys think that the problem really is the head gasket? If so, why do they fail? Did I do something that annoyed it ? What?
I like reading the forum, and appreciate all the interest that y'all show with each other.

Rog Brown

[sastanley]

checking timing on an A4 with a light

Hi Tom,

I have a question for you and the rest of the crowd...how did you check the timing? My engine is running, but I am having problems when I give it throttle under load..wondering if my advance springs,etc. are working properly. I never thought about actually putting a light on it. Do you use the light to make sure you have TDC or do you use it for tuning as well?

Do you have timing marks somewhere on the flywheel? Do you use the roll pin? I have a Catalina 30, & the engine sits under the galley so my flywheel is obscured.


[hijack] - Hi Rog, I responded to your other thread, once it gets going, there will be lots of help![/hijack]

[Tom B]

Hi Tom,

I have a question for you and the rest of the crowd...how did you check the timing?

Don mentioned using a "continuity" light ealier in this thread...I initially though he meant a timing light...but nope. That does not do the right thing.

A continuity light is just a 12V DC bulb connected to two wires. I made one from a Mailbu yard light bulb and a few alligator clips.

Then pull out #1 plug and get a flash light to peek in. Manually crank the engine until you see the piston at the top of the cylinder on the compression cycle right after the intake valve closes. This is a little difficult but not impossible to see from the right angle with the right light).

Loosen up the bolt that holds down the distributor, then attach the light, one wire on each side of the terminals in the coil.

BY rotating the distributor you can then determine exactly when the points open because the light will go out. The points stay open for a while (maybe 15-20 degrees) so you need to find point where the light first goes out. Then you have the entire engine firing at top dead center...

Afterward (I have not yet done this myself) you take her out and put a load on at ~2000 RPM or so, and then with your mate at the wheel, go below, loosen the distributor and slowing advance the distributor until the engine sweetens up, then tighten it down and you're done.

Like I said, this is based on some experience so far and some theoretical discussions...which I hope to soon test out in real life!

If I got any of this wrong, I am sure someone will jump in to correct me...I am hardly experienced at this stuff...that's for sure.

[roadnsky]

If I got any of this wrong, I am sure someone will jump in to correct me...I am hardly experienced at this stuff...that's for sure.

Tom-
Yep, for the most part you got it correct.
There is another way, however, to find TDC. Attached is Don's version.
You're timing part is good though...
-Jerry