No power forward/Power in reverse

[Don Moyer]

Lisa,

Bravo for you! Your explosive acceleration check in neutral goes a long way to validate the viability of your fuel system, ignition system, and your previous compression checks.

It could be that the valve adjustment on number 4 (if that is your 64 psi
cylinder) could be too tight, but with the average of your compression values, you should have sufficient power to enjoy your boat while the 64 psi cylinder is improving - through lots of Marvel Mystery Oil use.

In summary, I think you're very close to the goal line. There just remains some small issue that we simply aren't putting our fingers on.

In the meantime, please don't spend so much time running in reverse. I don't see what purpose it serves and you're grinding away needlessly on your reverse pinion gears.

Don

[forcenine]

Headless!

Don,
The exhaust valve clearances were all off registering less than .005. Decided to try the head anyway from inside boat. I hearily recommend the use of brass wedges. After good hits on a nut on each stud top (except for the 6 that came out with removal of nuts) and then brass wedges and PB Blaster, it came off. See proud pic-could not resist. Broke one exhaust valve in process. Will order valve compresion tool to look at the valves. Hope things don't look too bad and can be cleaned up and put back with improved status. Time will tell.
Lisa
PS. Potecting the cylinder for clean are weighted PUDDING CUPS-eprfect fit.

[Don Moyer]

Lisa,

Bless your heart! I was hoping to spare you the hassle of removing the head; now here you are with the head removed!

Please remember to stuff small pieces of rag into each of the 4 holes in the floor of the valve chamber before removing the valve keepers. Exhaust valve clearances of .005" (instead of .012") could account for a somewhat reduced compression. If you didn't already have the head off, I'd have suggested opening up the exhaust valve clearances to at least .012" (trying to err on the high side) and then see if the compression improves over the next several hours.

Since the head is already off and you seem to have good access (and seem determined to look at the valves) I wish you well. I must warn you, however, that getting the pesky little valve keepers out and back in with an engine installed on a boat has brought many of us old motorheads to our knees. I suggest you take only the worst exhaust valve out, get it ground at a local machine shop, dress up the exhaust valve seat in the block, and then reinstall that valve. You can then decide how many of the rest of the valves you want to deal with. When you get the valve out, give me a call at (410) 810-8920 and I'll give you a suggestion relative to dressing up the seat in the block.

Don

[forcenine]

valve keepers

Don or Someone..

Is there a pic of the valve keepers in the manual and their location?

Lisa

[Don Moyer]

Lisa,

If you look at the valve keepers in our catalog, you'll be able to see that they are tapered toward one end. The taper conforms to the inside diameter of the valve spring retaining washer. When installed, the taper of the valve spring retaining washer keeps the keepers pressed together around the stem of each valve.

You can then look at a picture of a valve, and you'll see a small groove near the bottom of the stem. When the keepers are installed over the stem of the valve and into the valve spring retaining washer, the ridges inside the two keepers (facing each other around the bottom of the valve stem) will line up with the groove around the bottom of the valve stem. The ridge inside the keepers fitting into the groove on the valve stem is what "keeps" the valve from coming up out of the spring; hence the name "keepers".

The trick in assembling all this stuff is compressing a valve spring and a valve spring retaining washer up over the bottom end of the valve stem with a valve spring compressing tool to expose the lower part of the stem with the groove, then holding a pair of keepers over the groove with two fingers on one hand while releasing the valve spring compressing tool to lower retaining washer down over the keepers with the other (while holding a flashlight in your teeth).

Cheers,

Don

[Springwhit]

No power forward

Lisa: Good luck,but I hate to tell you. I have the exact same problem and have for over a year. While mine used to die after a minute or too, it will continue to run, but there is no power, it sounds and behaves as if the spark on my old Ford Model A is not advanced. I have completely changed the fuel and ignition system, compression is good, "explosion" is good in neutral. It runs like a sewing machine in neutral and pulls in reverse. I am convinced that there is something worn out in the transmission that is causing a binding that bogs down the engine. Upon Don's advice I have adjusted the transmission to have a definite neutral and relaxed the reversing bands. But I cannot adjust forward to a position that fully engages forward unless there is extreme pressure used to put it in gear. One notch clockwise and it is nearly impossible to go in gear, one notch counter clockwise and there is too much slippage. All the local shade tree mechanics are recommending a buy a new transmission... Don?

[Don Moyer]

Unfortunately, there are a few cases like yours each year (usually on pedestal mounted systems due to their having less mechanical leverage in the cable system) in which the adjustment ends up being as you're describing.

The ultimate solution of course, is to install the latest style of adjusting collar. The cost of the collar is not prohibitive, but the labor to install it would be several hundreds of dollars.

You might also try using non-detergent oil, which has slightly less lubricity than detergent oil. Some folks have improved the condition you're describing by using an oil sold by motorcycle dealers which is supposedly designed for use with integrated clutch mechanisms.

The only benefit of ordering a rebuilt reversing gear assembly (at least from us) is that we install the latest adjusting collar in all our rebuilds.

Don

[Springwhit]

No power forward

Thanks Don. Actually, my 1978 Cat 30 was originally tiller steered. After installing pedestal steering in 1986 I had the problem you described, so I moved the shifter back to its original location in the cockpit well. At that time, this solved the problem. I have also been a motorcycle enthusiast all my life and have tried lighter oils in the crankcase. At this point, in my no power in forward journey and having already spent $1500 on fuel system parts, ignition parts and some local professional help, and with the transmission 30 years old, I just figure, since I want to win this battle that investing $350 in the rebuilt trans couldn't hurt.

[forcenine]

Esctasy and Agony

Don, et. al.,
Valve job completed including all valve keepers in place, clearances. Assembled all parts and engine ran in forward in slip for the first time! Bad cylinder #2 which was 64 rose to 85! Strangely the best #1 went from 105 average to 75, other two stayed the same at 79ish. But the running seemed to indicate a fix.

Ready for the agony? All ready to take her out for test underload in bay with friend and his emergeny skiff. I start her up and look over engine for leaks and find...water pouring from the side of the head over the water jacket. Not the gasket, the head itself. A hole in the casting itself--see pic.

I have a second engine in garage with stubborn head which I've been pounding thinking it was a practice head. Hope it works.

Best laid plans,
Lisa

[Don Moyer]

Lisa, there ought to be some kind of award for your efforts!

Don

[forcenine]

More agony..

I need an exorcist. Have hole in the 2nd head I've tried. Does anyone think from the picture above, the holes along the water jacket side could be welded up?

Lisa

[forcenine]

Head #3

Praise be to the website. SUPERDAVE has flown in to the rescue and given me a spare head to try. Third time is a charm I'm hoping!

[Don Moyer]

The whole Atomic 4 fraternity is holding its breath!

Don

[forcenine]

Waiting to Exhale

Dear Fraternity,

Elvis has left the building. The engine is fixed with the third head and valve job completed or so it appears. A brief sea trial with temperature stable, good and sustaining forward and backward momentum. And coincidentally, all on my birthday!

Thanks for your good wishes and support.

Lisa

[SEMIJim]

Dear Fraternity,

Elvis has left the building. The engine is fixed with the third head and valve job completed or so it appears. A brief sea trial with temperature stable, good and sustaining forward and backward momentum. And coincidentally, all on my birthday!

Yay \o/ And happy birthday!

As Don said: Such perseverance should be rewarded, and yours was .

SUPERDAVE: What a kind gesture.

Jim