First Atomic 4 experiance

[Black Jack 30]

First I would like to express my appreciation for all the efforts put into supporting the Atomic 4 engine. Until very recently I never anticipated the engine would have impacted my life. With the decline of the marine industry due to the economic woes and the gross reduction of the cost of many boats I find myself in a position for the first time to be able to afford a cruising boat that will allow my family to enjoy what I have known for most of my life. The love for sailing.
This being said I have located a Pearson 30 that works with the budget. At first I was somewhat put off by the Atomic 4 installed originally in this boat. I researched everything I could find and have developed an understanding of what has made this engine so successful. I think I can really learn to work with this set up.
When I went for the first time to see the boat I was met with a bilge full of oil. No one new the source of the oil. It could not be readily determined that it did or did not come from the engine. The engine did fire right up and run smoothly for the very short time is was run with normal oil pressure. Is there any known reason why the engine would loose a substantial amount of oil. The oil was very black and appeared used.
Needless to say it did have me spooked regarding the reliability of the engine. I am sure if it is a seal issue it can get sorted out, I just need to know prior to the purchase. I intend to have it surveyed and do a sea trial to properly prove the engine.
Any guidance to help me understand the engine better would be greatly appreciated.

Sincerely,
Dan

[roadnsky]

Dan-
Is it possible the oil got there during an oil change?
If the current owner has a mechanic do the work they may be unaware of any spillage...

[sastanley]

Dan,
Since the engine already runs relatively smoothly, maybe see if you can do a compression check on the motor prior to purchase. If the compression numbers are decent and not extremely varied from cylinder to cylinder, my opinion is that would indicate the engine is in overall good condition and you can work on any other issues that come up. Also check around the engine itself for green (if the boat is in salt water) leaks and rust, indicating other areas that might require attention. I would think a decent surveyor should be able to help determine the severity of any thing you observe.

When I acquired my boat last year, the bilge was black & the engine compartment coated with a layer of sludgy oil stuff. I determined this to be primarily from the inadequate crankcase vent system on the Atomic 4 (coupled with years of running and thus crankcase blow-by coating everything), as well as careless maintenance by the P.O. over the years, probably similar to Jerry's comment above. I have finally discovered a small oil leak at the rear of my engine (at the shaft coupler), but when I wipe my finger back there it is just a few drops. Research on this site seems to indicate this is not worth yanking the engine for, in and of itself, but could also be a source for some oil in the bilge.

The first thing I did was put an Indigo PCV system on it (which eliminated the oily blow-by and made the wife happy) and I continue to work on cleaning even now, and it is slowly coming back to white (less black).

About this time last year, my engine would barely push the boat to 3 knots in and out of the creek, and I knew nothing about Atomic 4's. It sounds like your situation is very similar to mine..a love for the sea, and the desire to share that with your family. I was fortunate to be able to give my wife a taste of it thru borrowed boats some cruising, and an also an active racing program on other people's boats, but never our own, until recently. These days, I feel I can rely on the engine to get me anywhere & enjoy sunset cruises, sometimes even on week nights, with the family.

If I can figure it out, anyone can!

[roadnsky]

Checklist

Dan-
You may want to read Don's Checklist. (attached PDF)
Most of it is an outline of Shawn's suggestions above but good advice and info.

Hope it helps you in your decision...

[Don Moyer]

Dan,

Did anyone try to bail the oil out of the bilge? A relatively small amount of oil (as little as a cup) will spread out over the entire surface of the bilge and give the appearance of a lot more oil than is really there.

Don

[mac666]

oil in bilge

Yep, I had the same thing in my newly bought E27, a P.O. must have changed oil by dumping it in a bilge - what a mess it made...to make it even worse, the boat set in the marina and filled the bilge and some cabin(4 inches)with rain water...of course, oil was on top and made a nice oily rim on setties and bulkheads. I pumped the water/oil mixture out with a manual bilge pump and cleaned with degreaser - now it all looks like new (except teak bulkheads that I'm planning to try to clean with some teak cleaner an a vacuum). The bilge looks dry and shiny now.
I bought a 12V pump from Basspro for 23 bux - it worked perfectly even on cold oil/water mixture to pump oil out of the engine. I pumped out 2 qts of oil and after it settled,I could see about a half a cup of water in it...oil looked gray with little rust particles in it. I put new oil, hand cranked the engine as fast as I could with plugs out., Did a compression test (manually cranking the engine c1=95psi c2=65psi c3=65psi , c4=95 psi dry. Squirted MMO in plug holes and got c1=95 c2=85, c3=75, c4=95.
Looks like I have a blown head gasket(Am I right???)
This would explain water in oil.
Should I change oil again and try starting the engine again? (boat is on the hard and 2 weeks ago a P.O. did start the motor for me for a second to show me that it was not frozen)...
What would you do next in my case?
cheers,
Mac

[Black Jack 30]

Thankyou for the quick responses. I did check the bilge to determine the depth of oil floating on the water as I was hoping it to be only a thin coating over the bilge water. It was completely oil and a fair bit. If it was an oil leak it was a major one. This leads me to believe the owner's response that the oil had been changed recently and was possibly a spill. He claims to only add small amounts of oil during the season and I took this to be a normal occurance and the engine has given him no reason to suspect any problems.
I did look through some of the service records on the boat and saw a fairly recent compression check that showed a range from 105 to a little over 110. The report stated this was good.
I did see a little evidence of what might be crank case blow by, but I need to learn more before I am in a position to diagnose anything.
With the help of sites like this and friends who are quite adept at keeping engines such as this in good working order I have gained a good deal of confidence and will most likely move forward with an offer based on survey, test sail, and haulout.
If I pull this together I will certainly move ahead and make the updates to the engine. Thanks again for the input and the checklist. I am looking forward to reviewing that document with keen interest.
Sincerely,
Dan

[Mark S]

A good surveyor will be able to give you the name of an experienced Atomic 4 mechanic who, for a fee, will be able to give you a reliable opinion of the engine's health. Money well spent.

Mark

[pallen58]

First A4 Experience too

This falls into the catagory of the 1st experience with the A4 in the E29. After researching here and advice from some old owners I bought a solenoid to replace on the A4. With the E29 you can see the entire engine which is a real blessing.
The A4 Service and Repair Manual has 4 steps to replace the starter motor. I got the battery disconnected and then removed the connections. Next removed the mounting bolts. My expectation was that the starter would slip right off. Not to be. No matter how much I pulled it would not budge. After feeling around the motor I felt one more bolt. This is attached to some sort of flange on the main starter. I get this bolt off and it still won't move. Seems that this flange won't let the motor slide out. We were attracting a crowd by this time and here comes the "older" A4 owner who promptly told us "You're doing that wrong." I stepped back and invited him to enjoy the experience. He said you have to twist and as you do that pull the starter up and away from you. And sure enough it popped off. I wish I had know that an hour and 1/2 ago. After that we had some other electrical issues to solve and making sure one removes the retaining wires on the spring we were able to get the engine started. At one point we still had to tap the starter, not with a hammer, but after that it seems to fire up pretty well. So the wife and I did get out for a nice fall sail. She would not let me drive her new boat.
Are there any more little hidden gems documented some where on how to do things?
Pat

[sastanley]

Pat...they are all hidden..the beauty of the A-4.

you shouldn't have to tap the starter to get it to work. Take it to the starter shop that has the old blind dog (or owner) and let them fix it properly.

Enjoy your A-4 and keep posting stories!

[Black Jack 30]

Update on my experiance so far. I had a better opportunity to evaluate the boat further last weekend. The oil in the bilge is not nearly as bad as I had thought. The owner was there cleaning it up and it did appear to have a good deal of water beneath the oil. This was good news. Also the owner confirmed that he adds very little oil to the engine during the season. The Pearson 30 works very well for my budget so I made an offer and had it accepted. Once I get back from the Fort Lauderdale Boat show (work not pleasure) I have a sea trial planned along with a haul out to check the bottom. Once this is all sorted out I look forward to getting into the A4 and updating a few things like ignition and cooling. Overall I checked it out with the guide in mind and I think it is in good shape.
Again thanks to this site and others for helping me gain the knowledge and information needed to understand this power system. with out it I most certainly would have overlooked this boat purely based on the engine.

One thing I did not know until I inspected the engine further was the fuel line is hard piped copper tubing. I thought this was pretty interesting in an old school way. No signs of a single leak. People just do not put boats together like that anymore. Even if it is reccomended that this be replaced I thought it was great to see the detail.

[Marian Claire]

Congratulations. I plan to be at the marina the weekend of the 7th. If I can help in anyway let me know. Dan S/V Marian Claire Slip 38

[CalebD]

Oil in bilge

One product that I think works fairly well is this: http://www.defender.com/product.jsp?...1479&id=133137
Other then that
This also looks interesting and I would like to try it: http://www.defender.com/product.jsp?...1479&id=215440

I don't know why anyone would drain their engine oil into their bilges intentionally. A small marina owner and crabber I met in Maryland seemed to think all sailboat owner's did just that. I was mystified. He also did not seem to know where I should take the used engine oil from my friends sailboat to recycle. This made me wonder who actually dumps their engine oil into their bilges.