We live in Freeport Maine...

[TomG]

GEM,

I'm glad you're still here checking in. I know you asked for a good A-4 mechanic in Maine and I also understand why. If I knew of one, I'd surely offer his or her name. Instead of a good contact, I will humbly offer a few thoughts.

If you think about the way we use our marine engines - any sailboat auxiliary power - we ask a lot of them. Infrequent use, damp homes, often very hot, salt water cooled, with fuel that might sit for weeks or months. Long, cold winter layups to running hard five or six hours a day. It's a tough world, whether it's an A-4 or Perkins.

When I got my current boat, it had a MMI reman A-4 recently installed. The PO threw a lot of money at it but never could get it to run well. He became frustrated and let the boat sit on the hard for a year. Facing another year of yard fees, he let the boat go cheap. I didn't know anything about the A-4 until finding this forum as I was researching the boat I was looking at buying. This forum and the participants herein gave me the confidence to buy this cosmetically ugly but structurally lovely Tartan 30 with the idea that I could figure out what was wrong with the engine. I read the MMI manual and started probing the engine and associated systems: fuel, electrical, cooling, and finally the exhaust. Turns out, the inner liner of the exhaust hose between the engine and waterlift had collapsed in on itself, choking the engine. I replaced the old exhaust system and haven't had a single engine issue in the since buying the boat in 2010. (DISCLAIMER: I did have a fuel issue where rainwater was getting into the tank, but that's not an A-4 specific issue.)

My point is, you will probably encounter a bit of "mama bear" attitude from the participants here because we have developed a particular affection for these amazing little engines and we have great loyalty to this forum's namesake and administrator. I have no doubt this forum could walk you through troubleshooting your problem because this is the forum's raison d'etre. At the moment, my little A-4 runs flawlessly, but I read this forum very nearly daily even though I post very occasionally. I learn something very nearly every time I log on.

Our sport of sailing means different things to different people. Knowing how to diagnose and repair my auxiliary engine is simply another step towards my ultimate goal in sailing - self-reliance and freedom. I wish you luck in your search for a good mechanic. If you eventually wish to troubleshoot your engine yourself, this forum will be with you every step of the way.

[wristwister]

Gem555, I'll offer up something else, and I'm guessing some others here would do the same. Once you're at your boat, ready to get some grease under your fingernails, you're welcome to call me and I can help step you through the process of figuring out what's wrong. If you do want to take advantage of this offer, drop me a PM and I'll give you my phone number, along with a list of items to have with you. We could even do a video call.

Now I'm certainly not the most qualified one here to make such an offer, but like the other stories you've read here I started as an A4 neanderthal, and with the help of this forum and Ken at Moyer, I've progressed through to a ground up rebuild of an A4 and feel like I've got a pretty good handle on these little beasts.

Let me know ...

[Boat]

Com'mon Gem! you can do it!!!! GEM, GEM, GEM,

[GEM555]

Still down...

So! The engine is still quite sick and I am still having issues. It starts running on three cylinders until the fourth "kicks in". I suspect water is entering the engine somehow but haven't got a clue what to do now.

[ndutton]

Before I elaborate on my previous opinions/comments, is there budget remaining to get this boat operating reliably for you?

[southcoasting]

This reminds me of a story about my neighbors Catalina 30 and a "reputable" mechanic who worked on her A4 woes...

She reached out to me knowing I knew about the engine from previous conversations...granted, I knew nothing about this engine before I joined this forum but have learned a decent amount enough to know basics and troubleshoot items when things go bad...I knew enough to have a non-starting A4 with reliability issues be a strong reliable asset of my previous boat...

After a close to $1000 bill later, she still had issues with the engine...I went to check it our and after noticing weird noises coming from water pump, I had determined that her pump needed an overhaul or replacement...

She bought a shiny new pump from Moyer after I told her which one to get and I replaced it for her free of charge...super easy work...

Her engine has now been working better than ever and pump is keeping the engine cool...

I then explained some basics of things she should do, things she should invest on, spare parts, etc...

Moral of the story, some of these "professionals" who work on boats will not know everything...It's amazing they did not notice the screeching sound coming from the pump and the very little water coming out the exhaust...or if they did, failed to tell the owner...why? I have no idea why...what I do know is that some of these guys you know as reputable may grow and have other employees who know very little or lack basic work ethics and honesty.

But if I was in their position as a mechanic, I would tell and warn the owners of other things to be aware of...not just say things are fixed, $1000 bill later, walk away...

who knows how much they would have charged her for a new pump and how much time they said it took...When I looked at her bill, I told her to fight it as there is no way they would have spent the amount of time they did on the things they claimed they did...if so, I assume they spent a ton of that time doing research online as they most likely had no clue where to start...

But as others have said here, I strongly believe it's a good idea to learn some basics about this engine. Learning basics will not only get you out of future trouble when it happens, but also be a key factor in preventing future problems as you will know the key things to keep these engines chugging along as the wonderful simple little machines they are capable of being.

[joe_db]

Before I elaborate on my previous opinions/comments, is there budget remaining to get this boat operating reliably for you?

This ^
Do you have:
$10,000
$5,000
$500
$50
to spend on this operation?

[joe_db]

So! The engine is still quite sick and I am still having issues. It starts running on three cylinders until the fourth "kicks in". I suspect water is entering the engine somehow but haven't got a clue what to do now.

See question about money.
Assuming you want to tackle this, first thing is a plug check. Take photos of all 4 spark plugs (out of the engine!) and note where they came from, i.e. 1,2,3, and 4. While the plugs are out, do a compression check.
Post these results and we have a starting point.
If you have the cash, buy a Moyer reman and forget about fixing the old one.
No worries if you don't, we have all been there.

[ndutton]

My finance inquiry was headed down a different path. I've been the outlier in this thread but as it progresses I'm becoming more entrenched in my convictions. GEM has been candid about his skills and desires, wants to enjoy his boat without becoming a mechanic to do so. I get it, we all want trouble free boating.

The forum advice has followed the forum strengths, a DIY attitude that strives to help and teach. It has centered however on the engine itself and not the ancillary systems critical to proper engine operation such as fuel, electrical and exhaust systems. Given that GEM has a Catalina 30 (I think I read that somewhere along the way) that has a marginal exhaust system in terms of keeping water out of the engine and that water incursion is a recurring problem, there is much to be learned for GEM to get up to speed on keeping his boat going. Lord knows the professional mechanics he's had the misfortune of meeting aren't even up to speed. GEM could install a new block MMI engine and unless he understands and maintains the ancillary systems he'll be right back in the same predicament. The same goes for a diesel repower. It has, as an example pertinent to GEM's water incursion issues, the same marginal exhaust (by design).

More importantly GEM has made it clear he'd much rather enjoy the use of his boat without being a motorhead. To that end it is my respectful opinion that GEM and any internal combustion engine are not a good mix. That is not a comment on what I think he can and cannot do but rather accepting his own self-assessment as he has sincerely described it to us. I said it before, it's not our way but I respect that it is his.

Keeping an eye on the goal of enjoying the boat and circling back to the finance question, it's clear to me that if there were ever a candidate for an electric drive, GEM may be it. It's not maintenance free but does away with engine, fuel, ignition, exhaust and cooling water systems, eliminating much of what he finds prohibitively challenging. The only concern I can think of is if the range fits his style of boating.

[joe_db]

GEM is in a bit of a fix. The season in Maine is short, there is no "low budget creek" you can just anchor a boat in 24/7/365 up there, and now he has a dead old boat that isn't exactly going to have buyers fighting over it.

[ndutton]

He may choose to invest this season in a repower to enjoy next season. After buying my boat I spent two full years (not just seasons) refitting her before I could really cast off.

I dunno, he has big decisions to make.

edit: more questions for you GEM
Is the engine the only boat system you find daunting? What about steering (if pedestal equipped), bilge pump, electrical in general, rigging, spars, sails, winches, keel attachment, thru-hulls & valves, sanitation (holding tank), potable water system, window and deck leaks, electronics, structural woodwork, etc.? A boat of your size is a complicated machine and it all requires management and maintenance. I'm asking because I want you to have a realistic look at what lies ahead, what boat ownership is really like.

Specific question: do you have the Catalina retrofit lower chainplates, the U bolt style? This is a critical safety upgrade, the entire rig and mast are at risk without it.

[sastanley]

GEM55, Just keep the info flowing to us..we'll help the best we can with what you are willing to put out.

I do like Neil's poster..my version of that does not have the bikini girl in it!

[svclevergirl]

Hi A4 guys,

Just want to say - I just joined and I read through this topic, and I was very impressed. I bought a '77 Pearson28 last year and I have an Atomic 4 and I have been working on it - i get discouraged at times. But having read this topic really gave me a lot of confidence and encouragement. Thanks to all who have posted!

-John
svclevergirl
Pearson28

[JOHN COOKSON]

John
Do you have a copy of the Moyer manual?
Give the forum a shout when you have questions or run into problems. You are not alone out there.

TRUE GRIT

[svclevergirl]

Hi John,

Thanks so much for writing. I do have the Moyer book. It is great. I also have WEST System guide to repairing fiberglass boats - two critical manuals for care of my P28. I definately have a couple questions for which I will create a new thread soon. Best of luck to GEM, amen to short season and no cheap creek to stash the boat in Maine!

Thanks!
-John
svclevergirl
Pearson28