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  #276   IP: 64.228.143.126
Old 07-08-2013, 09:58 AM
BobMcD BobMcD is offline
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Question Flamethrower coil from Moyer

Hi all,

Just to throw a monkey wrench in the proceedings, I have a Flamethrower coil that I got from Moyer, that when measured shows only 2.9 ohms across the - and + terminals. In fact the case of the coil says 3.0 ohms, yet it was originally order from Moyer as the internally resistered coil. It has not been installed as yet, and I was wondering if I should be adding a external resistor to is as well?
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  #277   IP: 24.152.131.153
Old 07-08-2013, 12:18 PM
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Actually Bob, your situation is what this thread's about. To answer your question of resistor or not, it depends on your voltage between the coil + terminal and the engine block ground at cruising RPM. Divide that voltage by the coil resistance and make sure the result is under 4. In the calculator I factored in a 15% safety factor reducing the quotient to 3.4.

At first blush I'd say you should add a resistor but without the coil input voltage we won't know what size.

The calculator can be found in the first post of this thread.
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  #278   IP: 67.235.27.130
Old 07-08-2013, 06:25 PM
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Just to add a little more to Neil's comment...
Yes, MMI used to sell the 3Ω Flamethower on their site.
(In fact, I also bought one)

This was before Neil did some research (a lot actually) and discovered that their claim (PERTRONIX not MMI) of a perfect match to their EI unit was, in fact, bogus.
If I understand correctly, once we'd made the discovery of needing additional resistance to avoid overheating (sorry, you'll have to actually READ the thread)
that was when MMI stopped offering the Flamethrower coils.

The coil now offered is at the necessary 4Ω requirement.
As I said, give Ken a call and he'll make sure you're set up proper if you have any doubt.

Just wanted to clear up any confusion to Bob regarding the Flamethrower originally offered on the site.
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Last edited by roadnsky; 07-08-2013 at 06:28 PM.
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  #279   IP: 71.178.85.108
Old 07-08-2013, 06:35 PM
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Thumbs up

Jerry, that might be a couple of paint chips there around the coil on your museum piece!

Better get on that!
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"Twice Around" - '77 Catalina 30, #511 with original A-4 & MMI manifold.
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  #280   IP: 67.235.27.130
Old 07-08-2013, 07:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sastanley View Post
Jerry, that might be a couple of paint chips there around the coil on your museum piece!

Better get on that!
I know.
I'm outta paint!
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  #281   IP: 24.152.131.153
Old 07-08-2013, 11:49 PM
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Credit where credit is due

Jerry mentioned the amount of work that was done on this issue to reach the solution we have and he is correct, it was quite a bit but in fairness I had a ton of help from several forum members. It was a collaborative effort. Thatch, Shawn and a bunch of others were involved. Reading through this marathon thread you'll see the variety of contributions.

We started with Pertronix themselves, found contradictory information in their literature and when we provided identical failure data to two different techs we received wildly differing responses. We knew then and there we were on our own, flying without a net so to speak.

And the rest, as they say, is rock 'n roll history.
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  #282   IP: 64.228.143.126
Old 07-09-2013, 01:34 PM
BobMcD BobMcD is offline
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Smile

Thanks all, I was wondering about the flamethrower coil, in fact I got it a long time ago from Moyer as a spare and was planning on installing it ..just because I had it and the original coil is rather old.. The existing coil reads 3.9 ohms across the terminal (disconnected), and so I was concerned about installing the new coil. I read about 13 volts across the coil + to ground when the engine is running at cruising speed, so to use the new coil I will need to add about 0.9 ohms resistor to be safe... Thanks for the info.
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  #283   IP: 71.178.85.239
Old 07-09-2013, 10:06 PM
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Bob, I think you have the right idea.

I am of the opinion that you put as big a resistor in front of the coil as you can, but keep the motor from being hard to start....i.e., too much resistance in front of the coil while cranking does not allow enough voltage to the coil to fire the plugs.

I have enough confidence in this arrangement now, that I've removed my 'dual coil' mounting. I have a 2nd coil aboard, and it is another Flamethrower, but now stored in a locker with the other engine spares. I have 3 of those little $8 ceramic resistors aboard, 1.82Ω being the middle range I think, and if I recall correctly, a 2.2Ω and a 1.1Ω, so that I can tailor my input voltage to the coil if necessary.

I started mine today after a three week rest. My current setup is the 1.82Ω resistor in front of my 3Ω (3.3 actual) Flamethrower and it fired instantly. I have not put a meter on it in a while, but if I recall, the voltage to the coil (+) post while running is in the low 10v range, and I have had zero trouble with that set up from an ignition system standpoint.
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She is always happy with a clean bottom!

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Last edited by sastanley; 07-09-2013 at 10:15 PM. Reason: add some more babble
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  #284   IP: 64.228.143.126
Old 07-09-2013, 11:33 PM
BobMcD BobMcD is offline
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Shawn,
Thanks. This makes sense. Did I see somewhere that you all got those resistors at NAPA stores ?
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  #285   IP: 71.178.85.239
Old 07-09-2013, 11:39 PM
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Bob, Affirmative...I had to do a little digging for the specifications, but I picked them up at my local NAPA between work and home.

I'll be happy to re-research when I have time to provide the data, but I think I found most of it on NAPA's site. Also, as I did with the internally resisted coils (a 3.0 ohm Flamethrower really being 3.3), I always check them myself with my own meter before installing..I have found that about 9 times out of 10 that the actual resistance is a little bit higher than advertised...which I think in this case is a good thing, as it lowers the overall voltage into the coil.
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"Twice Around" - '77 Catalina 30, #511 with original A-4 & MMI manifold.
She is always happy with a clean bottom!

http://www.moyermarine.com/forums/signaturepics/sigpic3231_6.gif

Last edited by sastanley; 07-09-2013 at 11:50 PM.
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  #286   IP: 64.228.143.126
Old 07-11-2013, 09:29 PM
BobMcD BobMcD is offline
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Cool

Thanks Shawn, I will go see what I can find at NAPA up here in Canada as the often have different or less stuff than the U.S. stores.
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  #287   IP: 71.59.69.172
Old 12-27-2014, 11:52 PM
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Wow.
I just finished reading all through this thread.
You folks are quite remarkable.
At this Pont there is on reason to toss out questions about my old wiring, big alt and and huge batteries. With regards to my plans on "converting" to EI. As a matter of fact I don't think I could come up with a reasonable question that you haven't already worked through.
Thanks for sharing all this good stuff!
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  #288   IP: 71.178.98.247
Old 12-28-2014, 08:49 PM
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Bill..as a follow up..I am currently running a Moyer coil, with the 1.1Ω resistor because I am a little bit chicken to totally trust it yet... The Moyer coil has performed well, & I've ditched the Flamethrowers.

My Motorola alternator is still pumping out 14.1v to the batteries with good success.
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"Twice Around" - '77 Catalina 30, #511 with original A-4 & MMI manifold.
She is always happy with a clean bottom!

http://www.moyermarine.com/forums/signaturepics/sigpic3231_6.gif
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  #289   IP: 50.46.223.17
Old 02-12-2015, 11:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sastanley View Post
Jerry..of course you are correct. I think the coil sold by Moyer is over 4 ohms of internal resistance.
It is, or at least the one i just got does, 4.1
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  #290   IP: 24.85.188.122
Old 02-23-2019, 10:30 PM
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Ignition woes

I've got power to the starter motor-engine turns over, no spark at the coil? I've replaced the points with the petronix ignitor. Seems like i'm late to this party, maybe someone has had similar issues? Suggestions appreciated. Thanks.
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  #291   IP: 24.152.132.140
Old 02-25-2019, 09:28 AM
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  1. Did the engine ever run following the electronic ignition installation?
  2. Please measure the voltage between the small + post on the coil to the engine block with the ignition turned on and report back. Be sure to turn the ignition off after the measurement, should take only seconds.
The answers to those two questions should point us in a direction.
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