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  #51   IP: 68.33.43.122
Old 10-12-2019, 02:05 PM
ernst ernst is offline
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Originally Posted by ndutton View Post
OK, thanks. I asked because there's a guy who frequents both SBO and more than one of the Catalina sites who advocates discarding the Oberdorfer impeller snap ring for exactly the reason you read on the internet.

I'll stop there if you get my drift.
Thank you. I may have been on SBO at some point but I don't recall ever going to a Catalina site. Or maybe it spilled over from there into other forums?
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  #52   IP: 24.152.132.140
Old 10-12-2019, 02:11 PM
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Originally Posted by ernst View Post
Thank you. I may have been on SBO at some point but I don't recall ever going to a Catalina site. Or maybe it spilled over from there into other forums?
Entirely possible. That's how misinformation spreads, people repeating what they read without any specific knowledge of their own.
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  #53   IP: 128.220.159.8
Old 10-13-2019, 05:50 PM
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Entirely possible. That's how misinformation spreads, people repeating what they read without any specific knowledge of their own.
I have to admit I wasn't that smart either I did not spread any misinformation but on the face of it this story clearly holds no water. Why would you need to secure an impeller 'for transport'? I guess it is something I wanted to believe since it is a minor pain to deal with that thing. Oh well, now I need to deal with the consequences.

In principle installing the new water pump should be very straightforward: just two bolts! It is a bit more tricky in my installation since I have the Indigo FWC system. The bracket that holds the raw water pump partly obstructs one of these two bolts. I will have to see how much disassembling this will require.
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  #54   IP: 24.152.132.140
Old 10-13-2019, 08:30 PM
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. . . . on the face of it this story clearly holds no water. Why would you need to secure an impeller 'for transport'?
Well, without the snap ring it's possible the shaft could slide out of the pump during transport but that would require it to be shipped in a box with one dimension over twice than what is necessary. You're right, it's a ridiculous premise yet the internet experts persist.
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Last edited by ndutton; 10-13-2019 at 08:38 PM.
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  #55   IP: 68.33.43.122
Old 10-14-2019, 11:26 AM
ernst ernst is offline
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Well, without the snap ring it's possible the shaft could slide out of the pump during transport but that would require it to be shipped in a box with one dimension over twice than what is necessary. You're right, it's a ridiculous premise yet the internet experts persist.
Yeah, and if such a packing size would have to be used (why??), two inches of packing tape would serve just as well.
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Old 10-27-2019, 09:49 PM
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Thanks, Al and John! The order will go out to Moyer today or tomorrow.
Here is my latest update. Last weekend I finally had the time to tackle the installation. It went mostly up to plan except for one snafu: I have the Indigo FWC system and I knew that the pump installation was a little bit more involved than just loosening two bolts because one of them holds the bracket for the raw water pump. I was prepared for that but not for the fact that the bolt that was used for that was too long to fit between the pump body and the hole where it is supposed to go. It turns out that the MMI pump has a slightly thicker flange (by about 2mm) which creates this interference.

My first idea was to cut off the bolt but I thought I check with Tom Stevens before doing that. He answered again within a couple hours (!) and pointed out that I am already loosing about 2mm in length because of the thicker pump body. He suggested instead to grind down the pump body.

Of course this made a lot of sense. So this is what I did. After that, everything went very well (OK, there are always things that go wrong: I actually overshot a bit with my grinding and as a result, the fan wheel of the alternator started striking the sheave of the belt, requiring repeated taking apart of the whole thing until I had everything back to where it needs to be). The pump is working very well now.

There is, however, a new problem: I noticed a tiny weeping of oil at the flange. It is really minuscule but I do not want to have any oil going into the bilge. I tightened both bolts as much as I dared (and that is really very tight!) which made the leak even smaller but it did not go away. I was flabbergasted and had no explanation. I ran out of time and in the car on the way back I found a possible explanation: I had mounted the pump dry, using just the gasket provided. But the old pump had quite a bit of gunk at the flange, some goop someone (not me) had used with the old gasket. I realized that I had scraped that off on the pump side (in case I will use it as a spare) but not on the motor side! So I wonder if there is some of that stuff on there, preventing a tight fit.

So I guess I have to take everything apart again and clean up the motor side of the flange. But before I embark on that project, I have two questions: Assuming that my idea is correct, that there is some dreck on the flange, did I ruin the new gasket? Should I pre-emptively order a new one? And second, I mounted it dry. Should I put some goop on the gasket when I mount it again?

Thanks for any advice!

Last edited by ernst; 10-28-2019 at 07:03 AM. Reason: typos
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  #57   IP: 24.152.132.140
Old 10-28-2019, 09:49 AM
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  1. Gaskets should always be installed on clean mating surfaces
  2. Gaskets should never be reused
  3. Generally speaking, gaskets do not require additional sealant
  4. Grinding down the flange of a new MMI 502 flange pump - ugh! You may have little choice because you're combining components from different manufacturers but still, ugh! I realize it's too late now but a threaded stud in the accessory drive hole with a hex nut to fasten the pump and bracketing could have solved the misfit.
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Last edited by ndutton; 10-28-2019 at 09:56 AM.
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  #58   IP: 68.33.43.122
Old 10-28-2019, 10:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ndutton View Post
  1. Gaskets should always be installed on clean mating surfaces
  2. Gaskets should never be reused
  3. Generally speaking, gaskets do not require additional sealant
  4. Grinding down the flange of a new MMI 502 flange pump - ugh! You may have little choice because you're combining components from different manufacturers but still, ugh! I realize it's too late now but a threaded stud in the accessory drive hole with a hex nut to fasten the pump and bracketing could have solved the misfit.
To your first 3 points: OK, I will order a new gasket then.

Your last point: All I can say is FACE-PALM!! Why did I not think of that!!!
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  #59   IP: 24.152.132.140
Old 10-29-2019, 12:05 AM
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Your last point: All I can say is FACE-PALM!! Why did I not think of that!!!
You didn't have to, that's why we are here. I wish you had mentioned the earlier advice on the forum before reaching for the grinder though.
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Old 10-29-2019, 08:41 AM
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You didn't have to, that's why we are here. I wish you had mentioned the earlier advice on the forum before reaching for the grinder though.
Believe me, I wished I had, too!
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  #61   IP: 165.225.34.153
Old 11-04-2019, 11:14 AM
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Originally Posted by ndutton View Post
  1. Gaskets should always be installed on clean mating surfaces
  2. Gaskets should never be reused
  3. Generally speaking, gaskets do not require additional sealant
  4. Grinding down the flange of a new MMI 502 flange pump - ugh! You may have little choice because you're combining components from different manufacturers but still, ugh! I realize it's too late now but a threaded stud in the accessory drive hole with a hex nut to fasten the pump and bracketing could have solved the misfit.
Hm, thinking about it: I hope the new gasket arrived in the mail (I am still on a business trip) and now I wonder if I should install the pump with threaded studs, instead of the bolts. It is too late to undo my grinder job on the pump but it seems like a better solution overall. For instance, I expect it will make the installation process a little easier. I don't anticipate any problems but it appeals to me to just slide the pump with gasket on the studs and be done with it.

Does that make sense? If it does, do I need to order studs somewhere, or can I just cut off pieces of suitable length from a threaded rod? I may even have one (stainless) lieing around, have to check when I get home.

And I suppose the studs need to be installed just with a drop of oil on them, right?

Thanks for your advice.
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  #62   IP: 24.152.132.140
Old 11-04-2019, 07:51 PM
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Be sure you don't thread the studs too far into the accessory drive. There are moving gears in there and you don't want to engage them. Rather than oil you might consider Loctite.
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  #63   IP: 71.38.107.125
Old 11-05-2019, 12:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ndutton View Post
Be sure you don't thread the studs too far into the accessory drive. There are moving gears in there and you don't want to engage them.
To enhance Neil's warning about threading the studs too far, here are a couple of pics.
In the lower right, near the gear, you can see the backside of the lower pump bolt.
The last pic gives you an idea of the thickness of the threaded area for the stud/bolt.
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  #64   IP: 68.33.43.122
Old 11-05-2019, 10:46 PM
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Be sure you don't thread the studs too far into the accessory drive. There are moving gears in there and you don't want to engage them. Rather than oil you might consider Loctite.
Thank you, Neil and Jerry. Something else I hadn't thought about!
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Old 11-10-2019, 11:19 PM
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Thank you, Neil and Jerry. Something else I hadn't thought about!
Situation update: Yesterday I took out the pump again. Of course that included removal of the alternator bracket, which means moving downthe alternator. As expected, there was old gasket material on the flange. After I cleaned that up and installed the new gasket (requiring a trip to the hardware store since the lockwasher on one of the bolts was donated to the bilge), the oil leak is gone.

Whether my whole problem is solved is not clear. Before I started the above-mentioned work, I noticed that the bilge under the motor was again filled with about a half gallon of what looked to be at least partially coolant (no, I did not taste it, I have my limits!). I had not put in a diaper this time, precisely because I wanted to see if I might have a leak somewhere. Nevertheless, I did the multi-stage refilling of the block and heat exchanger, I am getting pretty good at that , and increased the controlling temperature slowly to 180deg, as prescribed. All went well but when I checked again today, to my surprise the overflow/expansion container was completely empty even though I had filled it to the brim yesterday (by mistake). I was expecting that the motor would have ejected some coolant when it cooled off, leading to an overflow of the expansion container but it looks like the motor sucked in its whole contents! No idea what that means.

Unfortunately, when I was done I had to winterize the boat for the season. We will have a cold snap this week, with 36 hours below freezing (down to the teens). I have things set up so that winterizing is not a big deal so I could presumably go for a last sail next weekend but I am really busy at work so most likely this is the end of my season.

I guess I won't know if this is the end of my saga or not until some time next April.

Again, thanks A LOT for all the advice and hand-holding. I will for sure keep y'all updated once I emerge out of hibernation!
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