Rebuild Advice

[sdemore]

I inherited a '73 C&C 30 project boat that had been being restored a while back. The old owner had pulled and disassembled the engine, and collected a whole bunch of spare parts. The block was stripped down to just the crank, cam, vales, and pistons. Everything looks good to the eye and I found a box from piston rings in his parts. I pulled a few studs at random and they looked almost new, and I checked two of the crank bearings, which also looked fairly new. It does have two missing head studs and most all of the other nuts and bolts (head studs, all new nuts, and the water jacket stud set due in tomorrow). I bought the Moyer rebuild manual as well! (This is a new style motor with raw water cooling)

I have at least two of everything except the block and oil pan, with 3 or 4 of most smaller parts (water pumps, cover plates, etc.), but don't know what kind of shape they are in.

Any suggestions on what to watch out for during the rebuild, other than what is in the book? I've built numerous Harley engines over the years, but this is my first A4. I am very open to advice from those with more experience than I.

Thanks,
Steve

[joe_db]

I am not sure exactly how to do this, but you need to figure out how to check the cooling passages. If the block is good, everything is possible. If not, you don't want to waste time on it.

[ndutton]

I am not sure exactly how to do this, but you need to figure out how to check the cooling passages

Install the head complete with gaskets temporarily and pressure test with compressed air. Twenty pounds is popular and often mentioned on this forum but in reality a RWC engine operates with practically zero cooling system pressure, FWC is maybe four pounds tops. All you're trying to do is be certain the water jacket is intact, not pump it up beyond reason. Example: the USCG pressure test for fuel tank leaks is 3 PSI. If it's good enough for fuel, something similar should be good enough for the water jacket.

[lat 64]

Hi Steve,

There are quite a few particulars about marine engines that will not be self-evident. Also, safety standards are not the same as cars. Fuel and fire safety is addressed by quite a few Coast Guard regulations that will make you wonder at first until you suss out the reason for each. A boat is a bowl which heavier-than-air gases settle into and become a hazard. Just sticking auto electrics on the engine may not be good if they are not explosion proof.

This engine, the A-4 has a few items all it's own that are good to know on top of standard good marine machine practices.
Like:
Which end is the front? The cam timing gears are on the front.
That means that the "front" is toward the back of the boat in a standard layout, but you must reverse that if you have a vee-drive.
Piston order and orientation are confusing to auto mechanics.
You have a basket case. That means that even with engine building experience, you can put it together wrong. Research that part carefully.
The more time you spend on this web site, THE book, and forum, the less frustration you'll see in your project.

If you are going to the meet n greet, go with a note book. There are no dumb questions if you want to get the right poop.

Russ

[sdemore]

Thank you all, some great advice here!

I'll get the head on this weekend (studs and nuts arrived today) and try the pressure test. Hopefully that work out OK and I can continue on with the rebuild.

I am planning to attend the meet-n-greet, but I hope to have the motor running by then. The boat is in the water right now, but will come out for cleaning, painting, motor installation, rewiring, and some cabinetry replacement in early Spring. I'd like to have it back in the water by mid May and ready to go sailing for Memorial Day weekend. I'm sure I'll still have (boat) loads of questions though.

[sastanley]

Thank you all, some great advice here!

I'll get the head on this weekend (studs and nuts arrived today) and try the pressure test. Hopefully that work out OK and I can continue on with the rebuild.

I am planning to attend the meet-n-greet, but I hope to have the motor running by then. The boat is in the water right now, but will come out for cleaning, painting, motor installation, rewiring, and some cabinetry replacement in early Spring. I'd like to have it back in the water by mid May and ready to go sailing for Memorial Day weekend. I'm sure I'll still have (boat) loads of questions though.

sdemore, don't rush it. It will all work itself out. Some of us are years into our restorations and still working on it! Floating, engine running and rig up are the most important..all the other stuff comes along in time!

[sdemore]

As of right now, this isn't a restoration, per se. This is a dream of retiring on a sailboat, for a guy that grew up on motorboats and a wife from Arizona, with no boating experience. The boat is in amazingly good condition, but had a couple of galley cabinets removed to pull the engine and they are gone. It has been in the water and not moved for several years, so the bottom needs to be cleaned and most likely painted, the mast wiring is in bad shape, and I have some other small things that have to be done right away (install toilet). The goal is to make her a safe, comfortable, training boat, at as low a cost as possible (relatively speaking). I don't plan to restore right now, just get her to a nce enough condition to make mamma enjoy sailing.

[joe_db]

Do NOT rush. BTDTGTTS (been there done that got the t-shirt)
"Good enough to get out today" tends to get left that way until it all goes bad at the worst moment. Don't ask
See you at Cantler's

[lat 64]

...The goal is to make her a safe, comfortable, training boat, at as low a cost as possible (relatively speaking). I don't plan to restore right now, just get her to a nce enough condition to make mamma enjoy sailing.

I am doing much the same. A boat is NOT an investment!

My boat will never be worth a lot so Im never gong to be doing much fine finish work. Just safe and fun.

Some marital advice; If you have not yet, get the admiral involved using her strengths. Is she handy with tools? Or, is she a research shopper? Boating is all about budgeting money. She'll enjoy flipping on the breakers when it was her that chose to spend the extra dosh on a $500 panel. This is not about patronizing her.
Just being a galley slave is not boating.

Here's some of my posts doing similar work as you:

http://www.moyermarine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8637

http://www.moyermarine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3860

http://www.moyermarine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2978

http://www.moyermarine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3051

[sdemore]

Excellent advice and some of it I've already been thinking about. She hasn't completely bought in to the idea of sailing into retirement, so this is intended to show her that it can be fun. She is first and foremost and accountant, and thinks this is going to be a huge money pit. My #1 goal is to keep it cheap and let her make purchase decisions as she starts enjoying it. The boat doesn't have a stove and when I was thinking that we wouldn't need one, she commented that if we spent weekends aboard, she would need to be able to cook breakfast

She is also a seamstress, so will probably be making cushions and we've already talked about a Sailrite machine for the dodger and bimini that we don't yet have

Finally, we bought a complete fixer upper house 2 1/2 years ago (just finishing round 1 now). She was helping me to build walls, hang drywall, dig up the foundation, the whole bit. I think there is a lot of work she will pick up on the boat and make her own. Definitely a team effort...

[ndutton]

She hasn't completely bought in to the idea of sailing into retirement, so this is intended to show her that it can be fun. She is first and foremost and accountant, and thinks this is going to be a huge money pit

The money pit is all too common a story but I'm living proof it doesn't have to be. I set my budget quite low before I started shopping for a boat. After looking at some of the worst pigs known to man I found a tired but complete and functioning boat and bought it for half the budget. The following two years were spent refitting her properly with the mantra of never ever paying retail for anything. Principal refit completion was 10 years ago and I'm pleased to report that since then all monthly maintenance expenses (slip rent, insurance, bottom cleaning and equipment repairs) amount to less than a new truck payment. Point being if you can afford a new truck, you can afford a coastal cruising sailboat instead.

I admit I continue to spend beyond the maintenance costs for goodies but they're all unnecessary luxuries (refrigeration, solar, new cockpit table going on this weekend if the gonstermocker rain storm lets up, 5" forecast for Friday-Saturday). Spread over the past decade the discretionary expenses are hardly noticeable.

[lat 64]

Forget one important thing:

Both of you should think about taking a sailing course TOGETHER.
I know, I know, you already "know" how to sail, but if you learn the same techniques at the same time from a neutral party, it becomes a shared experience and not a battle for authority.

I like to use hand signals for deck comunicating. That way the whole harbor doesn't hear our salty exchange
The "I'm NOT yelling honey, I just want you to hear me" just never worked for me.

[sdemore]

Lat 64, I grew up on motorboats, sails were for people who couldn't afford gas! I know nothing about sailing, which is why we got a training boat. She is from Arizona and I took her on her first boat ride (motor boat) about 5 years ago, so she knows nothing about sailing either.

We do plan to enroll in at least one course, perhaps more. I've been getting conflicting recommendations though, with some saying train and learn together and others saying we'll pick up roles and not learn ll the tasks if we're doing it together. I'm leaning toward doing it together, but would like to hear from others with experience.

[joe_db]

I was a sailing instructor in my younger years. We always split couples up for basic sailing, otherwise the husband would try and translate from me to the wife.
For multi-day cruises we allowed them on the same boat

[lat 64]

I was a sailing instructor in my younger years. We always split couples up for basic sailing, otherwise the husband would try and translate from me to the wife.
For multi-day cruises we allowed them on the same boat

Wise words. joe has a good point.

I did scuba training with the wife and daughter. Awesome memories for me as a family good-time. I still give my daughter the stick-with-your-buddy sign when she heads out on adventures.
👌🏻
I'm a dad.