Engine will not run in gear

[roadnsky]

Thing one.
When I put the engine in gear I still have to give it throttle so say if I am at 800 rpm idle then I put it into gear I have to increase throttle to around 1200 rpm while putting it into gear to get it into gear without stalling then rpm drops to 800 once in gear. then if I put it back to neutral the engine will increase rpms back to around 1200 and I have to pull back throttle. I am still thinking I should simply be able to bump it in and out of gear staying at 800 rpm fwd and reverse? is this correct?

Well, that's pretty close to normal.
When you engage the forward or reverse it puts a load on the engine which decreases RPM.
Then when you shift to neutral the load is immediately released, hence the increased RPM.
(Sorta like shifting to neutral in your car while driving down the road without taking your foot off the gas)

What is the lowest RPM you can do smoothly while in gear at idle?

Congrats on solving the stuffing box issue!

[Dave Neptune]

To much

yeahjophn, when I engage my Indigo prop into forward gear at a 750 idle I only loose around 50 RPM if that. Either your idle adjustment is off or your base timing is, that is way to much of a drop unless your swinging a really big prop.
Was your prop shaft actually hard to turn when it got a bit warm? It seems to be a stretch that that would cause a stalling load on the engine unless the above is true.

Dave Neptune

[Baltimore Sailor]

Not holding a low idle in gear sounds like a lean mixture to me. I adjusted mine this way:

With the drive in forward, I lowered idle as far as it would go without stalling. Then I closed down the mixture screw a quarter-turn at a time until the idle RPMs came back up a bit. Then I throttled down again until the near-stall, then adjusted the idle mixture again. It ended up working sorta like this:

• put engine in forward
  
• throttle down to near stall at 1100 rpm (for example)
  
• adjust idle mixture; RPMs rise to 1150-1200 RPM
  
• throttle down to near stall at 1000 RPM
  
• adjust idle mix; RPM rises to 1050 RPM
  
• throttle down to near stall at 900 RPM
  
• adjust
  
• throttle down to 800 RPM
  
• adjust
  
• throttle down to 700 RPM
  
• adjust; leave at 750-800

This process worked great for me. Good luck on your adjustments.

One question for everybody: does anybody ever put a carb cleaner in the gas along with the MMO? Or does the MMO take care of that?

[ndutton]

I can speak to stalling load directly.

When Thatch and I headed out to chase down the U.S.S. Iowa I was motoring at nearly idle and the engine slowed to a stop maybe 200 yards from the slip. It had the telltale short squeal that identified the issue immediately as the stuffing box binding. I grabbed the wrenches, loosened it up to the point of dripping considerably and we motored for the next 8 hours trouble free regardless of RPM and much of it was quite low.

John, my engine does not stall shifting into gear at idle (700 RPM). Along the lines of what Dave said, let's make sure everything else is in order (timing, mixture, idle adjustment).

[yeahjohn]

Dave. I would only try to turn shaft when cold before... once I noticed it was warm it was impossible to move. Right now I believe my mixture screw is about one turn out... I think I will go to 1 1/2 and work from there. Also my lowest idle as of now is around 880... I can get lower after warming engine for a very long time.

Is my second issue of no range of movement in throttle lever normal? or is that adjustable?

[Sony2000]

I noticed on a new engine to me, that it didn't idle well, after checking the timing a number of times. Then adjusting the dwell angle, it calmed right down to a much lower RPM. Reving engine and it would return to a solid low idle. Petronics distributor.

[JOHN COOKSON]

+ 1 On This

I noticed on a new engine to me, that it didn't idle well, after checking the timing a number of times. Then adjusting the dwell angle, it calmed right down to a much lower RPM. Reving engine and it would return to a solid low idle. Petronics distributor.

Just had exactly the same experience. Delco distributor. Idle set lean @ 600RPM.

A couple of weeks ago, after setting the points, I noticed the dwell angle was ~2 degrees to high. I thought "what the heck" and let it go.
Then I noticed the engine started having the following symptoms:
Rough idle
Acceleration stumble when shifting into gear and revving up. (12X8 two blade prop)
If I shifted into gear at idle without giving gas the engine would die. Usually I could shift from neutral into gear and the engine would not stall if I didn't give it gas.

Yesterday I opened the point gap a bit. The dwell angle ended up being 32 degrees. All the symptoms disappeared.

Apparently my symptoms were on the ignition side - not in the carburetor.
Unless there was a piece of crud in the carb that worked itself loose.......

TRUE GRIT

[keithems]

i'm not seeing that you have the adjustable jet on your carb.

i'd strongly recommend you get and install it -- it sounds to me like your mixture in gear and above idle is too lean -- and the only way to richen it to stop the stalling out or even low rpms in gear is to have that adjustable jet.

after all the challenges i've faced and reported on in the past year. my a4 -- like neal's and dave's idles smoothly and does not die when put into gear. as mentioned many other places on the forum, a good idle in neutral and even a sustainable reverse do not add up to a solid forward -- which is what counts.

another thing to try -- given the old fuel in your tank [again, read my recent posts] you need to try using an outboard fuel tank you know is clean with fresh fuel. i find that the fuel system is the most tempermental aspect of the a4; if it's not completely right, a4 won't run, whereas it will if the ignition system is less than perfect.

[sastanley]

yeahjohn,

the small amount of movement in the throttle control is normal..Mine is about 11:30 at idle, and 12:00 is 1,600 RPM. By 1:00 I am over 2,000..2:00 is WOT.

This is not adjustable because the cable is a direct connection to the butterfly on the carb...you should be able to move it down at the 'business end' and look up in the cockpit to see what your range is that way, and I think you'll have a better understanding of how it works. Mine is in the same spot on the side of the cockpit well.

In my experience, stalling when you put it in gear, or stumbling on throttle up usually means an idle jet/passage is clogged or your stuffing box may be too tight..it should never be so tight you cannot spin the shaft in neutral.

When I shift, I lose about 100 RPM, but a nice easy throttle up seems to work the best. I need to do a little clean out on my carb as the transition from idle to main jet (1,150-1,200 RPM) is a little rough if I rush thru it with the throttle (which happens often due to the limited throw of the throttle cable) and I get a little stumble. Once I get it over 1,200, no problems.

[Wavey]

Finally Fixed stalling in gear!

Had this problem and my friends here had me chasing many things.
Plugged exhaust...nope
Cleaned carb...many times! Lol
Packing gland too tight...nope
Trans out of adjustment...nope
Points
Plugs
Distributer weights and springs
Timing(with a light). Nope
Fuel pump....nope
Had the carb off this weekend and cleaned it. Had the fuel pump off and made sure diaphragm was okay.( I need a screen for the filter/accumulator bowl).
While all this was off I decided to check the valves. Practically zero clearance on most! Got in there with a couple 1/2" wrenches and my .010 and .012 feelers and reset each valve. Has probably never been done in its 43 years!
Now she runs like a champ and has tons of power. 2years of aggravation solved by 2 hours of pain! So happy!

[ndutton]

. . . . . . I decided to check the valves. Practically zero clearance on most! Got in there with a couple 1/2" wrenches and my .010 and .012 feelers and reset each valve. Has probably never been done in its 43 years!
Now she runs like a champ and has tons of power. 2 years of aggravation solved by 2 hours of pain! So happy!

Even though this thread is a little long in the tooth, Wow Wavey, HUGE post and something rarely mentioned on the forum. We often hear complaints over access to the side of the engine but seldom if ever hear of the improvement with properly adjusted valves.

For those with poor access, MAKE access. Cut the panels/woodwork as necessary, whatever it takes. Catalina 30 and mid engine Tartan guys, we have no excuse.